Joes letter p4:DEMOS,LEVELING OF MASTERY,FINISHING THE RULES
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Nerdmeetsyou
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:30 pm
I didn'T say Auto loose...
I just said.... weak and hard to win!
And in my oppinion a game should be balanced!!!
especialy I believe as heroes are the most famous alignment played (as it seems to me at least)... it is quiet a design flaw of the game... that it is the weakest faction!!!
I just said.... weak and hard to win!
And in my oppinion a game should be balanced!!!
especialy I believe as heroes are the most famous alignment played (as it seems to me at least)... it is quiet a design flaw of the game... that it is the weakest faction!!!
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Bandobras Took
- Rules Wizard
- Posts: 3157
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm
Balance does not necessarily mean that all factions play the same way. Heroes are hands down the best choice for One Ring victory. They also average the highest individual MP cards, especially for a cost/risk factor (look at the effort required to get Army of the Dead compared with the effort of getting Itangast Roused, for example).
Even tournament results can be misleading -- the consistent winners may simply prefer a different alignment for their play. Some people honestly like being minion. I myself like being a Fallen Wizard, but I'm perfectly capable of losing vs hero.
A well-run Return of the King deck puts up serious MPs, but most of the people who can run it well started out with hero and usually get bored with it -- not because it's weak, but because they started out with it -- by the time they reach competitive tournament level.
(Which isn't to say that heroes will always win, either -- it's just that they have their options, as do other alignments).
Even tournament results can be misleading -- the consistent winners may simply prefer a different alignment for their play. Some people honestly like being minion. I myself like being a Fallen Wizard, but I'm perfectly capable of losing vs hero.
A well-run Return of the King deck puts up serious MPs, but most of the people who can run it well started out with hero and usually get bored with it -- not because it's weak, but because they started out with it -- by the time they reach competitive tournament level.
(Which isn't to say that heroes will always win, either -- it's just that they have their options, as do other alignments).
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Nerdmeetsyou
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:30 pm
There are enough players at the General opponent Tournaments who only play for the victory!
---> It is obvious that there is an imbalance between the alignments... because... otherwise those people wouldn't play those classical deck which are either fallen/minion or balrog.
Of cause there are some things only the heros can... but on the other hand... I am totaly assure that tournament results are a very good indicator for such things...
---> so this means those things are not good enough... maybe good but not good enough!
If i may compare it to magic...:
(as we remember there are 5 colors of magic)
Back in the old days of magic... is was said that Blue was an overpowered colour. because it can do more things than the others...
and this statement was also proven by the Tournament results...because the people mainly only palyed blue... and the tournament winners mainly played blue as their main colour!!!
this went even that far, that it was some kind of running joke in those day to say that "Island" would become banned to make Magic tournaments more interesting. (island is the card that gives you the possibility to play blue)
As the magic desingers realized that sad truth... they fixed it... by pushing the other colours! So as we see now... magic tournament is very diverse...and all colours are played quiet equaly!!!
Which is represented by both, the tournament results and the players opinions.
And I've met a lot of people in Middle-earth who feel that the other factions are superior to hero! And as we see that is even proven by the tournament results...
what else prove do we need???
---> It is obvious that there is an imbalance between the alignments... because... otherwise those people wouldn't play those classical deck which are either fallen/minion or balrog.
Of cause there are some things only the heros can... but on the other hand... I am totaly assure that tournament results are a very good indicator for such things...
---> so this means those things are not good enough... maybe good but not good enough!
If i may compare it to magic...:
(as we remember there are 5 colors of magic)
Back in the old days of magic... is was said that Blue was an overpowered colour. because it can do more things than the others...
and this statement was also proven by the Tournament results...because the people mainly only palyed blue... and the tournament winners mainly played blue as their main colour!!!
this went even that far, that it was some kind of running joke in those day to say that "Island" would become banned to make Magic tournaments more interesting. (island is the card that gives you the possibility to play blue)
As the magic desingers realized that sad truth... they fixed it... by pushing the other colours! So as we see now... magic tournament is very diverse...and all colours are played quiet equaly!!!
Which is represented by both, the tournament results and the players opinions.
And I've met a lot of people in Middle-earth who feel that the other factions are superior to hero! And as we see that is even proven by the tournament results...
what else prove do we need???
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Bandobras Took
- Rules Wizard
- Posts: 3157
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm
Boder: I used to feel the same way, but observation has convinced me otherwise. For example, the GCCG Nations Cup's MVP played hero, and the overwhelming majority of the deck types were hero.
Obviously you play to win. But within those limits, there are several deck types across all the alignments that allow you to play to win. If people prefer to play minion or fallen wizard because of their personality, that is up to them.
One of the things that I have loved about MECCG is that hero/FW/minion play differently without any being too overpowered. The perception that one side is overpowered is usually due to people being inflexible in their hazard portions.
Obviously you play to win. But within those limits, there are several deck types across all the alignments that allow you to play to win. If people prefer to play minion or fallen wizard because of their personality, that is up to them.
One of the things that I have loved about MECCG is that hero/FW/minion play differently without any being too overpowered. The perception that one side is overpowered is usually due to people being inflexible in their hazard portions.
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Nerdmeetsyou
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:30 pm
maybe you are right...
but still we have to deal with mordor shuffel and radagast squater?
but still we have to deal with mordor shuffel and radagast squater?
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Bandobras Took
- Rules Wizard
- Posts: 3157
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm
To deal with a Mordor Shuffle, simply pack Whole Villages+Tidings. To deal with Cheezagast, use Aware of Their Ways to get rid of his allies in the discard before he can play them, use Stench of Mordor to tap out Radagast at Rhosgobel in spite of Hall of Fire, and Pilfer the Troll-Chief. To deal with a Mordor Squatter, use Heedless.
Make sure you have a good resource portion.
The point being that there's counters to most things in the game. The only question is whether you want to devote hazard space to dealing with them or not.
Make sure you have a good resource portion.
The point being that there's counters to most things in the game. The only question is whether you want to devote hazard space to dealing with them or not.
you also have to deal with hero hobbits in dragon country, hero one ring decks, or eriador short rest shuffle... Those are some of the most annoying decks in the game, and guess what... they are hero...BoderHamster wrote:maybe you are right...
but still we have to deal with mordor shuffel and radagast squater?
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Bandobras Took
- Rules Wizard
- Posts: 3157
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm
I actually played a hero game recently, and almost wept for joy at not having to draw Stage Resources just to get MPs . . . 
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Ringbearer
- Ex Council Member
- Posts: 474
- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:39 pm
Are you seeing the light, Ben? Convinced FW saruman SUCKS?Bandobras Took wrote:I actually played a hero game recently, and almost wept for joy at not having to draw Stage Resources just to get MPs . . .
"I used to roll the dice, feel the fear in my enemies eyes."
- Coldplay, Viva la Vida.
Gaming is life, the rest is just dice rolls.
- John Kovalic, Dork Tower
- Coldplay, Viva la Vida.
Gaming is life, the rest is just dice rolls.
- John Kovalic, Dork Tower
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Bandobras Took
- Rules Wizard
- Posts: 3157
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm
Of course he sucks; I'm not in this game because I'm addicted to winning.
I think the only allignment that is overpowered is the Balrog, but this is not something that can be fixed with virtuals and I do not expect this ever to change.
With fallen, it is more that players with less experience find it harder to play or to play against. In this regard I would even include myself as less experienced, because I have not played more than about 30 games with or against fallen. For balrog this is even less btw.
With fallen, it is more that players with less experience find it harder to play or to play against. In this regard I would even include myself as less experienced, because I have not played more than about 30 games with or against fallen. For balrog this is even less btw.
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Nerdmeetsyou
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:30 pm
Why shouldn't we be able to fix that kind of things with Virtuals....
(or why shouldn't be there a rullings fix?)
(or why shouldn't be there a rullings fix?)
Nobody is going to accept down grading of any part of the game, not even for the balrog.
I do not expect any rule changes in the near future.
Virtuals can give a boost to specific strategies, but will never affect one allignment as a whole. The game is already highly balanced, considering how complicated it is and the amount of possibilities.
I do not expect any rule changes in the near future.
Virtuals can give a boost to specific strategies, but will never affect one allignment as a whole. The game is already highly balanced, considering how complicated it is and the amount of possibilities.
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Nerdmeetsyou
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:30 pm
yeah the problem is all your inflexibility... even you guys don't want to change anything....
how should we save the game at all???
If no change is made?
Without change all things become obsolate!!!
The guys at the council must be granted this kind of power...to change things like that!!! Make rules. Rewrite rules. Or even create new ones!!!
This is the greathes problem of METW that the guys from the council don't have any right to change anything!!!
this is why the game will ... or probably is allready DEAD!!!
how should we save the game at all???
If no change is made?
Without change all things become obsolate!!!
The guys at the council must be granted this kind of power...to change things like that!!! Make rules. Rewrite rules. Or even create new ones!!!
This is the greathes problem of METW that the guys from the council don't have any right to change anything!!!
this is why the game will ... or probably is allready DEAD!!!