Joes letter p4:DEMOS,LEVELING OF MASTERY,FINISHING THE RULES

[Manuel]

Although we don't have a deadline, the fact is that threads are open not because we are discussing them, but more because we stopped discussing and therefore stopped locking and publishing. Also, I am only an advisor, which means I have no vote there, I can only bring new ruling questions, and many times I find myself not being rules-wise enough to go any further than that. At some point the voting members have to make a decission, and this is exactly what is missing in most of those open threads.

Await the Advent of Allies is a good example of a card that has been discussed for months now, was brought to the NetRep board, discussed (basically each of the netrep guys put his point of view) and no ruling has been published so far, so people still wonders how to play it.

On the other hand, opening new threads on the NetRep doesnt make much sense when the ones already opened arent being worked. At least not for me.

No matter how you put it down, Mikko, for the last months the NetRep hasn't been giving the impression of working on it. Most of the guys there show up very ocasionally, and especially the voting members don't show up as well. Players appreciate the fact that rules-wise players tend to be around.

Most people feels it needs a refreshing, now the question is, do you agree with that?

[miguel]

There seems to be some confusion, so first I'd like to clear two terms. The netrep (Mark Alfano) is the person you email your questions to and he writes the digests. The netrep team is a group of people that helps him find the answers when necessary.

At some point the voting members have to make a decission, and this is exactly what is missing in most of those open threads.

That's not exactly true. Rulings are not to be made lightly, as some people seem to think. If a good ruling can't be found, the matter will stay unsolved until that happens. It might take a day, a month, a year or three.

Await the Advent of Allies is a good example of a card that has been discussed for months now, was brought to the NetRep board, discussed (basically each of the netrep guys put his point of view) and no ruling has been published so far, so people still wonders how to play it.

Yeah ok, sorry. I answered now. Hopefully the netrep will agree and put out a digest soon.

On the other hand, opening new threads on the NetRep doesnt make much sense when the ones already opened arent being worked. At least not for me.

If you post a question, you are more likely to get an answer than if you don't post a question. If you aren't asking questions, you can hardly complain about the lack of answers.

No matter how you put it down, Mikko, for the last months the NetRep hasn't been giving the impression of working on it. Most of the guys there show up very ocasionally, and especially the voting members don't show up as well. Players appreciate the fact that rules-wise players tend to be around.

The situation hasn't been good, that's clear. I very rarely read the rules questions section here, but I try to take a look at the netrep board at least once a week (so please post your questions there). Personally I'm always just an email away.

Most people feels it needs a refreshing, now the question is, do you agree with that?

If by refreshing you mean starting a new team that lacks deeper knowledge of the rules, then no. I'm not a big fan of how this is being handled, you really should take this matter up with the netrep and see what he thinks.

[Jambo]

Yep, those points are fine miguel, but the fact remains that the MeCCG NetRep is pretty much AWOL. That means progress is in fact minimal. To survive, small communities like this one really need (pro)active people.

[Manuel]

Well, I don't want to put all this as a complain, sorry if it looked like that. We have a problem and people is trying to find some solutions. Of course, the first person to speak with is Mark Alfano, and nothing shoulod be done without his consideration. In fact, we would love to see him read all this stuff and let us know what he thinks. I really appreciate the work he's done for the game so far, and I would really love to see him on it again. However, it seems to me that now he has other things to do (which it's absolutely respectable IMO, I also have been away from the game from long periods because of being too inmerse on other things), and either having Mark back on this work or having some fresh blood replace him is needed. Even if that new people have less knowledge of the rules, (1) that gets improved with time and practice for sure and (2) as Jambo says, (pro)active people with lower level in terms of rules is better than inactive people with higher level.

People with such knowledge of the rules, like Mikko or Mark is a treasure to keep around, and in no way anyone is trying to "invade" their territory. Since no one gets any profit from this, it is a neat idea to have everyone in charge of what he can and wants to take care of, and not on what he doesn't want / can't. Let's see what does Mark think about this. If he is not able to go back, then maybe it is good to keep him as an advisor, and put some other guy with more time for MECCG in his place.

[thorondor]

mark is coming to Lure, so i guess i will be able to talk about a few matters. its always easier to to that in person ...

[Manuel]

That's nice. Too bad I am not coming too =(

[Ringbearer]

I talked to Mark a little bit about it, and work consumed his time mostly. But he agrees we can change the NetRep team a little to make things work better.

See my other post in the general section.

[Frodo]

Just to get back to the wiki idea... I also think that a wiki is great. But let's think this out a little bit...

In theory, the "Play and Examples" file I created was a first step in this direction. It has an immense amount of information in it, but there is certainly not a listing for EVERY card. That would make it a vast document indeed to carry around... of course, most people probably read it off their computers anyway...

But why a wiki? Is this so ANY meccg player can add a line of info or two? But then how do we keep the information "official"? Do we just have a Netrep look it over every week and delete the offending, incorrect info? For years I've wanted the Netrep or its team to look over the Play and Examples file and give it the "official" stamp of approval, but it was too vast for them to do this. Or do we limit wiki editing access to only a handful of people? But then won't they get flooded with requests from people who want to add a line or two to the cards?

In theory, I also like the idea of the wiki. I'm just trying to figure out its advantages over a simple PDF document.

Btw, if we decide to go with the wiki, one first step would be for someone to take ALL the info in the Play and Examples file and place it in the wiki.

But I think an even earlier, more important first step is for someone to make all the COE digests SEARCHABLE, by copying and pasting them all into one MS-Word document, so it's easier for people to just "look up" their answers to their repetitive rules questions, as Miguel pointed out. Or has this been done already? I already have a MS-Word version of the digests up to a certain point only.

--Frodo/Joe

[Ringbearer]

I thought of the wiki from the star wars website. Its much easier accessible than a pdf simply because its sorted. You click on the set, then on the card. It explains all the rules and it will be kept up to date with NetRep rulings.
Of ocurse it will be editable only by the netrep team so no-one can tamper with it.

[Shapeshifter]

You may download my word-file of all CoE Rulings digests here.

[Frodo]

A lot of what we're discussing revolves around tough ideas and arguments. Now I want to think about projects.

First: I would like someone to start creating the "Demo game" I outlined. I would like a rough draft of this finished by mid-May. I could then take a look at it, and do a revision/expansion/edit to it. Basically, in August I'm going to a huge convention where American Nats is and I'd like to try this demo-thing!

Second: Maybe somebody answered this already, but... are there game conventions in Europe? Does anybody go to them?


Frodo

[Ringbearer]

Well, there is one really big, and that is Essen. I've been there last year and had A Chance Meeting with Nico and Eric. But it has little tournament space other than renting a boot, and those are expensive.

[thorondor]

A lot of what we're discussing revolves around tough ideas and arguments. Now I want to think about projects.

First: I would like someone to start creating the "Demo game" I outlined. I would like a rough draft of this finished by mid-May. I could then take a look at it, and do a revision/expansion/edit to it. Basically, in August I'm going to a huge convention where American Nats is and I'd like to try this demo-thing!

Frodo

good that you bring this up again. i have been pondering about this for some time already ...

i think there are 2 levels:
- demo decks just for teaching the game: gandalf vs saruman, each one company going for 4 MPs cards (mix of item/faction/ally). not more than 10/10 cards per deck.
decks are easily prepared. see attchment.

- starter decks for interested people (that have been demoed)

while the demo decks are used for demoing exclusively, the starter decks should be given away to anybody interested in the game for a few $/€. this should be done in the name of the COE (by some representatives).

i have done proto types of such starter decks. each wizard with 10 characters and 20/20 cards in the deck. see attachment.
the guidelines have been:
- availablility of cards:
c cards appear up to 3 times in all decks together. uc cards only once. f1 cards only once, f2/3/4 up to 2 times, f5 in each deck.
also cards from TD, and very few from DM.
- theme:
groups of characters mostly of the same race. each starting company contains a hobbit (i dont wanted to have them without hobbits). MP resources accoringly.
5 types of hazard creatures: men, undead, orcs, wolves, trolls

if you have any ideas how to make them better, please let me know.
i wanted to play with these decks a few games just to see if they are balanced.

i am planning to ask the world wide community to send cards, that are needed for these decks, to the COE representatives for MECCG demoing. this could be me for europe, maybe joe wants do do this for the US?
the COE covers the shipping costs, while the cards are given for free.

but before all of this starts, we have to prepare a few more things:
- create a map that can be added to the starter decks
- make rules for the specific need of the demo game and starter decks. there is this simplified rules document by craig o´brian. maybe this one helps (with a few changes). i have attached it here.
- a nice info card that tells a few things about MECCG and the COE and leads to the hoempage.

anything else??

[Thorsten the Traveller]

That, Wolfgang, is actually a very good idea!! best I've heard so far. This must be accomplished. I'll check out the decks.

[Nerdmeetsyou]

Another main problem for newbees is allso something I found very desperating when i was introduced the game:

You start learning with heroes..... which is greath and fun!!
then you find out that there are other factions... and you think... yeah might be fun too...

But in the end you realize that playing a hero deck is mostly crap on any tournament! Yeah all the people like it... and there are some that rarely win...
but still the game is very imbalanced...
and the most famous faction of all.... the good the heros....
are the worst one to play!!!

What kind of sense makes that for a game???

And how do you feel when you have bought some The wizards... and then finaly realzie that you cannot win anything with your cards.

This is also why tournaments (i believe) have become very unpopular... and uninteresting... because we already know who will win... which deck... usw.... so why attend anyways?

So we definitly would need a way to solve that problem.... make everything more balanced...
hopfully with some Rulings?
or if it isn't possible any other way... by V-cards!!!