Detainment and Trophies

[Bob654]

This discussion was started in a different thread (https://councilofelrond.org/forum/viewt ... =16&t=5281) but I wanted to bring it to the forefront as I believe it merits further disucssion.

Question at hand: can a detainment creature attack result in an orc or troll character taking a trophy?

The new CoE rules seem to explicitly call out this possibility:

Section 3.II Detainment:
"A detainment creature attack is not worth marshalling points to a player that defeats it. If at least one strike of a detainment creature attack was assigned and all of its strikes were defeated, the creature card is discarded instead of being placed in the attacked player’s marshalling point pile."

Section 3.IV Trophies::
"Creatures being used as trophies provide the same number of kill marshalling points that they would to the defeating player if the creature was not being used as a trophy (i.e. the creature’s normal value for non-detainment attacks, and zero marshalling points for detainment attacks)."

"A character’s attributes are modified based on the total number of marshalling points printed on its trophy cards (regardless of how many points the cards are worth to the player)"

Between these two sections, it seems very clear that a) detainment attacks are "defeated" (even though they don't provide MPs), and b) they can be taken as trophies (and the rules even call out the example of a detainment attack as a trophy).


This is in direct contradiction to the following quotes from the Lidless Eye rules:
"An attack by a hazard creature is defeated if it is not a detainment attack and all of its strikes directed against (i.e., assigned to) a company are defeated."

"A detainment attack from a creature is never defeated and the creature’s card is always discarded after the attack is resolved."

"If one of your minion companies defeat a creature, you may place the creature’s card under the control of any Orc or Troll character that faced a strike from the creature’s attack."

And from the Balrog/Challenge rules summary:
"Defeating an Attack
An attack by a hazard creature is defeated if it is not detainment, and all of its strikes are defeated"


Is this an intentional rules change with the new CoE rules document?

[Konrad Klar]

Beside of that what I said before in thread "Shelob's Brood detainment?" .

"A detainment creature attack is not worth marshalling points to a player that defeats it."

Defeated attack itself is not worth marshalling points; creature/event card may be worth marshalling points.

[Konrad Klar]

Due to hypothetical effect an attack from Dragon Ahunt, Dragon at Home, AA created by Spawn permanent-event* may become detainment.
Such attack may be defeated and then Dragon Ahunt, Dragon at Home, Spawn permanent-event card may be used as a trophy.

*) Non-hypothetical situation: Moria with Nature's Revenge and Hold Rebuilt and Repaired played on it plus Balrog of Moria.

EDIT: "may be become" -> "may become"