Gothmog On Guard

the JabberwocK · Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:27 am

Do the On Guard rule restrictions of only revealing a card On Guard which could have legally been playable during the M/H phase prevent Gothmog from being placed On Guard at Moria to be revealed after the Orc auto-attack there? Illegal because the Orc attack he follows has not yet taken place during the M/H phase?

If so, could he be placed On Guard at Moria and revealed after the Orc auto-attack there if an Orc attack did take place during the M/H phase?

Konrad Klar · Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:49 am

Gothmog may be keyed to

or

, what normally does not allow to playing it at Moria.
If played after Orc or Troll attack keyed to

or

, Gothmog may be played not keyed to anything.
On Guard creatures may be revealed only if they are keyed to a company's site.

the JabberwocK · Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:31 pm

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:49 am On Guard creatures may be revealed only if they are keyed to a company's site.

Thank you. Will you please quote the source that states On Guard creatures may only be revealed if directly keyed to the site? (Rather than otherwise legally playable).

Hypothetically, assume 2 separate companies both moving to Moria on the same turn. Hazard player places one card on guard at Moria for each moving company. Resource player combines companies at Moria and enters the site. After auto-attacks are faced, hazard player reveals first card placed on guard: an orc or troll creature keyed to the Shadow Hold. Next, Gothmog could NOT be revealed as the second on guard card (even though he follows the orc/troll attack) because there is a rule which forbids any creature being revealed unless they are directly keyed to the site themselves?

Konrad Klar · Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:05 pm

the Jabberwock wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:31 pm Will you please quote the source that states On Guard creatures may only be revealed if directly keyed to the site? (Rather than otherwise legally playable).

Lidless Eye wrote:The card will remain on that site until one of the following occurs:

The company decides to face the site's automatic-attack. If the on-guard card is a hazard creature keyed to the company's site or a hazard that can modify the automatic-attack, it may be revealed before the automatic-attack is resolved. If it is a hazard creature, it will attack after the automatic-attack is resolved.

Underline mine.

the Jabberwock wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:31 pm Hypothetically, assume 2 separate companies both moving to Moria on the same turn. Hazard player places one card on guard at Moria for each moving company. Resource player combines companies at Moria and enters the site. After auto-attacks are faced, hazard player reveals first card placed on guard: an orc or troll creature keyed to the Shadow Hold. Next, Gothmog could NOT be revealed as the second on guard card (even though he follows the orc/troll attack) because there is a rule which forbids any creature being revealed unless they are directly keyed to the site themselves?

A creature card placed On Guard may be revealed if a company decides to enter a site but before the automatic-attack is is faced.
Unless Moria is

at the time, or under effect like "any creature keyed to

may be keyed to this site this turn" or similar, Gothmog placed On Guard cannot be revealed because it is not a hazard creature keyed to the company's site.
If above special conditions exist in site phase, but did not exist in M/H phase, Gothmog placed On Guard cannot be revealed because On Guard card may be only revealed if it also could be played in M/H phase.

the JabberwocK · Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:46 pm

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.

Shapeshifter · Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:03 pm

Gothmog wrote:Unique. Troll. One strike. May also be played following an Orc or Troll attack in a Shadow-land [s] or Shadow-hold [S].

The card will remain on that site until one of the following occurs:

The company decides to face the site's automatic-attack. If the on-guard card is a hazard creature keyed to the company's site or a hazard that can modify the automatic-attack, it may be revealed before the automatic-attack is resolved. If it is a hazard creature, it will attack after the automatic-attack is resolved.

That would either mean that this CoE-ruling is incorrect or that the text on Gothmog concerning his keyability trumps the rules:

[NetRep] Official Rulings Digest #118 wrote:"Can Gothmog be placed on-guard then revealed at the minion Under-Leas?"
Only if the company faced an orc attack during the movement-hazard phase. As I'm sure you know, you cannot reveal an on guard card unless it was playable during the mh-phase.

Bandobras Took · Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:18 pm

Yes, the CoE ruling is wrong. Gothmog is not keyed to anything when using the ability to be played after Orcs and Trolls, and so cannot be revealed as a hazard creature.

It's still currently official, though, so feel free to do it.

Incidentally, At Home Dragons can't be revealed on-guard either.

MEBA Summary wrote:The company decides to face the site's automatic attack. If the on-guard card is (. . .) a hazard that can modify the automatic attack, then it may be revealed before the automatic-attack is resolved.

Italics in the original. Adding a separate attack does not modify the automatic attack that the company decides to face, though it does modify the how many automatic-attacks a site has.

They can be revealed if the company plays a card that potentially would tap an untapped site, but by then, they won't need to face the automatic-attack.

Konrad Klar · Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:39 pm

Bandobras Took wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:18 pm They can be revealed if the company plays a card that potentially would tap an untapped site, but by then, they won't need to face the automatic-attack.

Only if they affect a company, e.g. Scorba at Home may be revealed at this point only if a member of company bears a major item.