Long Dark Reach + Stealth

[melkor_morgoth75]

Here is a situation i came across last tournament.

My opponent played Stealth. During Opponent's M&H phase i played Long Dark Reach.
My statement is that i can play LDR and creature i reveal CAN target company 'cause LDR is NOT a creature hazard. Am i right here?

thanks,

mm75


Stealth = (Tap a scout to play at the end of the organization phase only if the scout's company size is less than three. No creature hazards may be played on his company this turn).

Long Dark Reach = (Playable on a moving company with at least one Wilderness [w] in its site path if you have at least 10 cards in your play deck. Reveal the top seven cards of your play deck. One revealed Nazgûl, Dragon, or a non-unique creature (your choice) immediately attacks the company (regardless of its playability requirements). The creature must be be playable in a region besides Coastal Sea [c]. If the creature could not normally be played on the company, modify its prowess by -4).

[Konrad Klar]

You can play Long Dark Reach. However effect of Stealth still applies, so revealed creature cannot be played against affected company.

[melkor_morgoth75]

You can play Long Dark Reach. However effect of Stealth still applies, so revealed creature cannot be played against affected company.

I disagree here, sorry. Creatures revealed by LDR ARE NOT played ... you play LDR and then if u reveal 1 of "its creature" it attacks the company, but u don't play actually a creauture (which is the trigger of Stealth),

mm75

[Konrad Klar]

Fragments "(regardless of its playability requirements)" and " If the creature could not normally be played on the company, modify its prowess by -4" may indicate that revealed creature is actually played, although not from hand.

[Leon]

I would also think that the creature will attack. It is similar to the fact that an Ahunt can always be played and will create a hazard creature attack even against stealthy groups.

The text (regardless of its playability requirements) already implies that Long Dark Reach overrules normal limitations.

Additionally the creature receives a -4 to prowess in my opinion, since Stealth makes sure that it could not be played normally, i.e. without Long Dark Reach.

[Konrad Klar]

There is difference between groups of events that creates attack and groups of events that causes attack from creature.

Ahunts (also Mordor in Arms, Spider of Morlat) creates attack and do not cause creature to be played. Exhalation of Decay, In The Great Wrath, Long Dark Reach causes attack from creature.

[Bandobras Took]

Playing a card is the process of bringing a card from your hand into play.

Scout only. Tap a scout to play at the end of the organization phase only if the scout's company size is less than three. No creature hazards may be played on his company this turn.

Playable on a moving company with at least one Wilderness in its site path if you have at least 10 cards in your play deck. Reveal the top seven cards of your play deck. One revealed Nazgûl, Dragon, or a non-unique creature of your choice immediatly attacks the company (regardless of its playability requirements). The creature must be playable in some region besides Coastal Sea. If the creature could not normally be played on the company, modify its prowess by -4. Shuffle all unused cards and return them to the top of your play deck.

According to the CRF definition, the creature is not played on the company because playing a card is the process of bringing a card from your hand into play, and the creature revealed by Long Dark Reach is never in your hand. It isn't played, and Stealth only prevents creature cards that are played.

[Konrad Klar]

Hmm.. CRF?

Then how about this entry:

The creature does not count against the hazard limit. A creature must be played if there is one available.

My explanation is that revealed creature is taken to the hand and then played.

No conflict here.

[Bandobras Took]

I would say rather that Long Dark Reach was errataed to say the creature card is played.

In which case Stealth would prevent it.

[melkor_morgoth75]

Hmm.. CRF?

Then how about this entry:

The creature does not count against the hazard limit. A creature must be played if there is one available.

My explanation is that revealed creature is taken to the hand and then played.

No conflict here.

Hmmm ... the errata isn't clear enough. It doesn't specify that you take and play the creature, u just GUESS that. It's not enough for me. Moreover it DOESN'T change the card's text, so for me still:

"One revealed Nazgûl, Dragon, or a non-unique creature of your choice immediatly attacks the company"

is triggered as soon as u reveal a creature and you don't play the card from your hand 'cause the card doesn't say that.

mm75

I think this should be cleared in next RD ...

[Konrad Klar]

If some card is not in play and you are bringing it in play is not it equivalent of playing from hand? There are some card that simulate such playing and if operates on card already on table then contains phrase "as if it were in your hand", "as though it were in your hand", or similar (Armory, Out of Black Sky, Whispers of Rings).

[melkor_morgoth75]

Exactly ... LDR doesn't specify "as if it were in your hand" ... so ...

mm75

[jaded]

Additional cards that fit this topic:

BRING OUR CURSES HOME
Corruption. Playable on a non-Wizard character whose company is facing a hazard creature attack. Discard this card if no character is eliminated by the attack. If any character is eliminated, place creature's card with this card-creature is considered off to the side. Target character's company faces an attack from creature at the start of each movement/hazard phase if creature is playable. Discard associated creature's card if this card is discarded. Discard this card if associated creature is defeated.

FOES SHALL FALL
Corruption. Playable on a non-Wizard character facing a strike from a Dragon or Drake hazard creature attack. If the strike is defeated, discard this card. If the strike is not defeated, place creature's card with Foes Shall Fall-creature is considered off to the side. Target character's company faces an attack from creature at the start of
each movement/hazard phase if creature is playable. Discard associated
creature's card if Foes Shall Fall is discarded. Discard Foes Shall Fall if
attached Dragon or Drake is defeated. If target character is a Dwarf, he
receives 2 corruption points.

[Konrad Klar]

In these cases associated creatures are already on table.

[jaded]

Yep, so they are not played (brought from hand)