In the heart of his Realm

Manuel · Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:58 pm

I don't want to play devil's advocate here, but I'm pretty sure you can play Smoke Rings in response to Bane of the Ithil Stone, Flotsam and Jetsam, etc, and get resources from discard pile...

In fact, I don't believe there's anything which you can't play anything in response at all. You can always respond to everything, although there are some (tons of) rules

Jambo · Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:07 pm

Manuel wrote:I don't want to play devil's advocate here, but I'm pretty sure you can play Smoke Rings in response to Bane of the Ithil Stone, Flotsam and Jetsam, etc, and get resources from discard pile...

In fact, I don't believe there's anything which you can't play anything in response at all. You can always respond to everything, although there are some (tons of) rules

You can, as long as they're in the same chain of effects and smoke rings is played in resposne to Bane or Flotsam and Jetsam and not the other way round.

Konrad Klar · Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:10 pm

Yes, of course. However you cannot play anything "in response" to the effect of Bane of The Ithil Stone, just because this effect (if Bane of The Ithil Stone is in play) is not declared. Is still in play.

Bane of The Ithil Stone is simplest case. Its effect is not dependent from anything. Effect of Flotsam and Jetsam has some conditions to be active, but these conditions are not passive conditions in any way.

Jambo · Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:29 pm

Is this to be taken as how the card should be played now and if so shouldn't the tutorial at the top of this forum be modified? I spoke to miguel and he also thought this is how the card should work. Anyway, if not, then what's to be done?

I might even use this card for fun (in sb of course) if it plays this way.

Cheers

Jambo · Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:29 pm

After discussing this on GCCG, I was told this card does create a passive condition; one which can be responded to by the play of Marvels Told by the company revealing a

in the site path.

Ok, if that is indeed the case I would like some further clarifications:

1. What happens during a company's turn (i.e. all phases) based on the following 3 different scenarios?
One - they've moved through a

but are at a site that's not in a

.
Two - they've moved through a

and are at a site that's in a

.
Three - they didn't move that turn but are at a site that's in a

.

2. Once activated does the passive condition continue until deactivated or does it get re-activated each turn/each phase? Is the passive condition still considered to be in effect on the company's next m/h phase or can one still respond during the m/h phase?

Cheers

Konrad Klar · Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:06 pm

It is common misunderstanding, mixing terms "passive condition" with main effect i.e. "action caused by passive condition".

Regardless, if interpreatation of cards as creating action caused by passive condition leads to such paranoidal scenarions as:

does it get re-activated each turn/each phase?

*

this is sign that interpretation is wrong. Card produces continous effect, not action.

*) Add to it: 1. for each company at site in

or Gorgoroth. 2. for each copy of In The Heart Of His Realm in play.

|Highwayman| · Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:03 pm

Jambo wrote:After discussing this on GCCG, I was told this card does create a passive condition; one which can be responded to by the play of Marvels Told by the company revealing a in the site path.

yes, I never argued with that - if In the Heart of His Real is already in play when a company starts its move you can Marvels Told it away

it doesn't matter if you only move through, move to or sit in the specified region(s) (be it by type -

or name: Gorgoroth)

I agree (if I understood Konrad correctly) that In the Heart of His Realm isn't checked and re-checked again and again - its effect is continuous (constantly applies to everyone that meets the requirements)

but I stumbled on a new problem - can In the Heart of His Realm played in response to say Marvels Told or any spell?
I think yes, and as I also believe that on the other hand you can't play Marvels Told on In the Heart of His Realm as it is just played it would seem that Mark's statement should't be "All hail Marvels Told!", but "All hail In the Heart of His Realm!"

Sauron · Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:53 pm

CRF Passive Condition

Annotation 9: If a card specifies that an action is to occur as a result of some specific passive condition, this action becomes automatically the first action declared in the chain of effects to immediately follow the chain of effects producing the passive condition. The passive condition must exist when this resulting action is resolved in its own chain of effects, or the action is canceled. Note that actions in the strike sequence follow a different set of rules.

So yes you could play it in response, but it would not stop marvels told. As In the Heart would become the next chain and not be in effect for the 1st chain.

Konrad Klar · Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:11 pm

Assuming that it produces action coused by passive condition, not continous effect.

It is currently discuted here.

Jambo · Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:32 pm

What happens during the other phases other than the m/h phase? Does it have to activate every phase, every turn, every m/h phase, or what?

Is Flotsam and Jetsam different to Bane of the Ithil-stone? Is the play deck requirement treated as a passive condition that causes an action or a continuous effect? Can someone always respond to Flotsam and Jetsam with Smoke Rings for instance?

Konrad Klar · Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:55 am

Jambo: Your questions are directed to players who believe that In the Heart of His Realm sets action activated by passive condition? Yes?

Jambo · Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:55 am

Yes.

Sauron · Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:05 pm

Each company moving in a Dark-domain [d] draws one less card at the start of its movement/hazard phase (to no minimum). Additionally, any sage at a site in a Dark-domain [d] or Gorgoroth, or moving with a Dark-domain [d] or Gorgoroth in his site path, loses his sage skill. No character at a site in a Dark-domain [d] or Gorgoroth, or moving with a Dark-domain [d] or Gorgoroth in his site path, can use spells, light enchantments, or rituals. Discard when any play deck is exhausted.

Jambo wrote:What happens during the other phases other than the m/h phase? Does it have to activate every phase, every turn, every m/h phase, or what?

I would say once in play and resolve keeps checking continously like in a loop.

Are you in a site X, Y, Z or Moving in X, Y, Z. If yes then lose skill if no, then not.

Again and again in a loop

Again this is my own feeling on this. I need to look up in the rules if this is how it works.

Jambo · Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:08 pm

Sauron wrote:I would say once in play and resolve keeps checking continously like in a loop.

Are you in a site X, Y, Z or Moving in X, Y, Z. If yes then lose skill if no, then not.

Again and again in a loop

Again this is my own feeling on this. I need to look up in the rules if this is how it works.

Interesting. So effectively this card doesn't work at all? If its resolving keeps checking continuously then each time it does resolve one could respond with a MT, a spell or a light enchantment...

Edited to remove comment about card draw. This was explained and I just forgot.

Sauron · Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:16 am

No because after the 1st triggering, the effect is set. So now on check 2 it checks for conditions, but it doesn't negate the 1st effect which is already set.

So on check 2 it goes ok, condition is true, so take away sage skill to anyone who still has it at this point, which is no one.

Check 3 kicks in, etc, etc.