Council of Elrond

Hi there,

for once I am am going to suggest an errata, or at least that this proposal is consider for some kind of thematically-motivated house rule. Basically, for thematic reason I always disliked seeing Long Winter or Foul Fumes working on the basis of the printed site path, in times when most players adopt region movement. Why would be a ranger be needed when I'm not travelling through two Wildernesses or a Shadow-land or Dark-domain? Likewise, sites should be affected (e.g. rendered un-enterable) again only if they are in such regions where a harsh winter or some sort of evil fumes would affect them. So here is what I would propose:

- Long Winter

Environment. Each moving company that has moved through at least two Wildernesses must return to its site of origin unless it contains a ranger. Additionally, if Doors of Night is in play, each non-Have site in play within a Wilderness region cannot be entered. Cannot be duplicated.

- Foul Fumes

Environment. Each moving company that has moved through a Shadow-land or a Dark-domain must return to its site of origin unless it contains a ranger. Additionally, if Doors of Night is in play, each non-Haven site in play within a Shadow-land or a Dark-domain is tapped. Cannot be duplicated.

Note that I suggest only being unable to enter the site for Long Winter as the need to firm up a rule around the location of the site effectively means considering only if the site is within a Wilderness, and at that point tapping all sites would be too brutal. To balance the two cards one could also have the same effect of not being able to enter the site for Foul Fumes.

1.

sarma72 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:31 pm Basically, for thematic reason I always disliked seeing Long Winter or Foul Fumes working on the basis of the printed site path, in times when most players adopt region movement.

The issue does not exist.

Each moving company that has at least two in its site path must return to its site of origin unless it contains a ranger.

This works on the basis of company's site path.

2.
Tapped sites are enterable.

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:50 pm 1.

sarma72 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:31 pm Basically, for thematic reason I always disliked seeing Long Winter or Foul Fumes working on the basis of the printed site path, in times when most players adopt region movement.

The issue does not exist.

Each moving company that has at least two in its site path must return to its site of origin unless it contains a ranger.

This works on the basis of company's site path.

Yes but what matters is what is printed on the card. If I move through region movement I can often get to a site with two in the site path printed in the card, without actually travelling through two .

Company's site path is not printed on card.
In starter movement it is usually the identical path as site's site path.
In region movement they may be coincidentally identical.

Each moving company that has at least two in its site path must return to its site of origin unless it contains a ranger.

works in the same way regardless of method of movement.

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:50 pm 2.
Tapped sites are enterable.

What I meant if to obtain the same effect of not being able to play resources, without necessarily having to discard the site it, unless to play some card to untap it.

sarma72 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:09 pm

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:50 pm 1.
Tapped sites are enterable.

What I meant if to obtain the same effect of not being able to play resources, without necessarily having to discard the site it, unless to play some card to untap it.

To untap a site during site phase a company must enter the site. The company must first decide to enter the site and face AA (if present).
And there are many more activities during site phase that a company may take beside playing the resources requiring untapped site and untapping the site. Some resources may be played also at tapped sites, other even require tapped site. Plus company's activities that have nothing to do with site phase but may be taken also during the site phase, like e.g. playing Test of Form.

What can be changed to achieve one of your goals (as I understand them) is the introducing the stipulation that an effected site must be located in , or / region (respectively).

I.e. if Rhudaur is currently but Arthedain is the Bree would not be affected by Foul Fumes.
Currently the Bree would be affected.

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:29 pm What can be changed to achieve one of your goals (as I understand them) is the introducing the stipulation that an effected site must be located in , or / region (respectively).

For the second part of the card, affecting any site, yes

Now I do not understand your point.

For example: a company is moving from Lorien to Ovir Hollow. Doors of Night and Long Winter are in play.
Company's site path is initially .
Withered Lands has ben played on causing treating it (along with Wold & Foothills) as .

Now Ovir Hollow's site path is .
Ovir Hollow's site path has two , but Ovir Hollow is not located in region.

Should be it affected by Long Winter or not?

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:05 pm Now I do not understand your point.

For example: a company is moving from Lorien to Ovir Hollow. Doors of Night and Long Winter are in play.
Company's site path is initially .
Withered Lands has ben played on causing treating it (along with Wold & Foothills) as .

Now Ovir Hollow's site path is .
Ovir Hollow's site path has two , but Ovir Hollow is not located in region.

Should be it affected by Long Winter or not?

Yes this case, or a simpler one where I'm going to Wellinghall ( printed on the card) but coming from Isengard, hence travelling through . The rule at the moment stand that you should only look at what's printed on the card. Long Winter is meant to represent the impact of travelling through wilderness in bad weather, if you don't it does not make sense to me to blindly apply it's effect.

So that want you want is that Welling Hall should be affected by Long Winter if moved from Lorien, but not affected if moved from Isengard?

Currently a company moving from Isengard to Welling Hall is not affected by Long Winter.
The company's site path is (normally) . Welling Hall is affected if Doors of Night is in play.
A company's site path and site's site path are distinct terms.

I agree that tapping the site is a bit harsh and that it might have been more fair to just prevent the company from entering such sites. Still, these are Environments and I think that Environments should be important. The battle for the environment is a neat twist in this game. I wish that it was emphasized more instead of being made less important as the expansions came out.

Also, I mostly agree with the original thematic use of returning based on company's site path and tapping based on the site's site path. The main thematic issue that I see is Long Winter affecting the desert area around Mordor. Sure the desert can get cold, maybe having snow, but it's not the same impediment as snow in the forest and mountains.

How about addressing all the thematic issues by renaming Long Winter to Wicked Big Storm? (Maybe that's too much of a local joke?)

If effects of Long Winter / Foul Fumes should depend on company's site path and not on site's path, then why to make a site not enterable?
Should not be easier (and more thematic) to make a company unable to make anything during site phase at the (any?) site?
After all other company may reach the same site using path that does not contain , or / region (respectively).