Draft of CoE Digest #200 Q2 - Siege - Open until August 27th

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Manuel
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In order to contribute to this thread please follow these rules:

1) The thread will be open until August 27th. The usual time is two weeks but having in mind that it's vacation time we've decided to leave it open a bit longer.
2) There will be a maximum of one reply per forum user, and that reply cannot be edited. We want to actively avoid starting "flame wars", so please speak your peace, let others speak their peace, and that's it.
3) After the review period, the ROC will carefully consider everyone's contributions, revise the draft as appropriate, and then the Digest will be published and official.
If a company is at a site with Siege played on it, at what point during the site phase does my company have to face the attack created by Siege?

First, let’s read Siege’s text:
Playable  on  a  Border‐hold or  Free‐hold site.  A  company  at  this  site  must  face  an  Orc  attack  of  three  strikes  at  7  prowess  at  the  beginning  of  its  site  phase.  At  the  end  of  the  organization  phase,  a  company  at  a  site  with  Siege  on it  must  make  a  roll  (or  draw  a  #) and  subtract  one  from  the  result  for  every  non-Scout  character  it  contains.  If  this  result  is  less  than  5,  the  company  may  not  move  this  turn.  Discard  when  the  site  card  is  discarded  or  when  the  site  card  is  returned  to  the  location  deck.  Cannot  be  duplicated  on  a   given  site.


We have the rules concerning the site phase:
Site Phase

In the order you decide (i.e., you decide which goes first, second, etc.), each of your companies may:

do nothing or

follow this procedure:

1. Enter its site.

2. If the site has an automatic-attack, it attacks the company. The attack is resolved normally (see Combat).

3. If the site is untapped, a character in the company may attempt to play an item, ally, or faction that is “playable” at that site. Tap the character and the site. Certain resource cards other than items, allies, and factions are playable during the site phase and state the conditions under which they may be played. Such a card only requires an untapped site if it states that the site taps when played.If a tapped site should become untapped, an additional resource may be played that taps the site. Anytime a resource card is played that taps the site, one additional character may tap to play a minor item.

4. Standard Rules Only: One of your characters or your Ringwraith may attempt to influence away one of your opponent’s characters, followers, allies, factions, or items (if it is at the same site). See Influence.   ORAgainst Wizard Player Only: One of your companies may make an attack against one of your opponent’s companies (if it is at the same site).

Since Siege’s attack happens at the start of the site phase, and the company has to face this attack no matter what, this committee has found it appropriate to rule that the attack coming from Siege has to be faced before the site phase procedure begins. This means that the company has to face the attack from Siege before they decide whether or not they want to enter the site.
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Tom Bombadonne
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Any issue with "Siege" may arise because
a company at this site
may be unclear. There is a clarificaion for this that specifies that you always are at a site, irrespective of wether you want to enter or not. Consequently, Siege applies.
During the site phase, a company may decide not to enter and explore its current site. In this case, the company does not face the automatic-attack, but it may not take any other actions or play any cards during the site phase. The company remains at the site and it may decide to enter and explore the site on a later turn
and
(...)at the beginning of its site phase
is clear.
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Bandobras Took
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This looks good -- I would consider adding a note about how it interacts with River, though.
You have until the beginning of the site phase to tap a ranger, and you may tap the ranger at the beginning of the site phase without entering the site. You must tap one ranger for each river played on the site.
(Once again showing River to be an absolute mess of a card in all respects. :D )
The game is flawed, but this does not mean it cannot be loved.
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Tom Bombadonne
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The question is which comes first, isn't it?
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Khamul the Easterling
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Manuel wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:49 am Since Siege’s attack happens at the start of the site phase, and the company has to face this attack no matter what, this committee has found it appropriate to rule that the attack coming from Siege has to be faced before the site phase procedure begins. This means that the company has to face the attack from Siege before they decide whether or not they want to enter the site.
Agree!
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Konrad Klar
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Bandobras Took wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:52 am This looks good -- I would consider adding a note about how it interacts with River, though.
You have until the beginning of the site phase to tap a ranger, and you may tap the ranger at the beginning of the site phase without entering the site. You must tap one ranger for each river played on the site.
(Once again showing River to be an absolute mess of a card in all respects. :D )
Card Erratum: Should read "Playable on a site. If a company that has moved to this
site this turn does not tap a ranger, it must do nothing during its site phase."
I agree.

A fact that you have a time to tap a ranger until the beginning of the site phase does not mean that you have always an opportunity to do so until until the beginning of the site phase.
During a hand reconciling you do not have such opportunity. If for any reason the ranger's company may not do anything, you do not have such opportunity too.

If River would give the possibility that "you may tap the ranger at the beginning of the site phase without entering the site" that should be the part of errata for the card.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
dirhaval
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I agree with the ruling posted here.
Always felt Siege was made to add danger to the free/border holds forcing an attack no matter the choice to enter.

About River;
IMHO, River gives the player an option to pause the beginning of the site phase to first tap a Ranger. Then I think Siege is activated.
I like to think of it as the chain of effects: Siege - River; site phase: River then Siege.
If Siege must be faced before the decision, then River is faced afterwards, right? Good for me.

Now, to not get too odd; If River blocks the site phase; "doing nothing" does not preclude facing an attack from Siege or Near to Hear a Whisper.
"Doing nothing" is for needing a site. So I feel Knowledge of the Enemy cannot be played if an agent attacks using Near to Hear a Whisper if River was not nullified by a tapping Ranger.
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Mordakai
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Agree with that ruling, thanks!
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...
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Manuel
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Thanks everyone for your contributions.

The ROC will study them carefully and come up with a final digest soon.
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