Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:27 amEither:
1. Cards off to the side are generally in play (and generally are not affected by game) and then "(item [...] is considered out of play)." makes sense.
2. Cards off to the side are generally in play only for purposes of uniqueness (and generally are not affected by game) and then "(item [...] is considered out of play)." is (again) either redundant or removes the item from play even for purposes of uniqueness (principle is that a text of a card may beat rule, not vice versa).
Sometimes I feel like you deliberately introduce confusion into a simple concept.
Cards "off to the side" are NOT "
generally in play" as your two alternatives state. There's confusion because you just made stuff up instead of reading and comprehending the rules. The rules say "
Cards placed off to the side are placed on the playing surface off to the side of the normal area of play." Since there's confusion lets go back to the fundamentals of reading comprehension -- each word has meaning. The word "off" has meaning. In this context it means "away from," "removed", or "separated." When the rules state that a card "off to the side" is placed "off to the side of the normal area of play" it means that such a card is away from the play area, removed from the play area, separated from the play area. The card is not in the play area so it is NOT IN PLAY.
While cards placed "off to the side" are not in play as discussed above, the rules state that they are "
in play for the purposes of uniqueness." This rule is not redundant, as you questioned, because the card is out of play and so without this rule the card would be out of play for purposes of the
Unique rule.
When the rules state that "
Any card placed off to the side absolutely cannot be targeted or otherwise affected by the game except by cards that specifically affect cards placed 'off to the side.'" it is simply explaining how things not-in-play work for people that have never played a game before. Even without this rule it would still be the case that a card placed "off to the side" could NOT have any affect on the game and could be not targeted. This is just a fundamental concept in game design in general, beyond MECCG.
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Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:27 am
Beside palantirs other affected combos are Balrog of Moria, Lorien, Galadriel (off to the side), and Return of the King, Denethor II (off to the side).
It's very, very simple. If a character card is out of play when they are "off to the side" then it works exactly the same as when that character card has been eliminated and is out of play in the
Out-of-Play Pile. Eliminated character cards in the
Out-of-Play Pile are also considered for purposes of the
Unique rule.
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Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:27 am
For me this is hard to believe that ICE made an effort to treating item as not in play even for purposes of uniqueness. Rather the effort was to make references to the item in play invalid. I am for option (1).
You're confused about how
Great Secrets Buried There works because you are confused about how MECCG works because you don't understand fundamentals of game design.
For all games, a card outside of the play area is not in play. Some special rules might apply but this is true in general.
For MECCG, a card outside of the play area that is "off to the side" is out of play. However, it is in play for purposes of Uniqueness, but only for that purpose.
If it isn't there it isn't there.
For
Great Secrets Buried There, the item placed "off to the side" with
Great Secrets "
is considered out of play." This statement in the card text says the same thing as the Dark Minions rules. This statement in
Great Secrets does NOT state that the item is considered out of play for ALL purposes nor does it state that the item is out of play for purposes of the
Unique rule.
The card text of
Great Secrets reiterates the "out of play" rules. It does NOT override the rule that "off to the side" cards are "
in play for the purposes of uniqueness."
Craig Ichabod O'Brien Me:CCG Official Netrep wrote:
From: ich...@cstone.net (Ichabod)
Subject: [METW] Confirmations and Reversals
Date: 1996/11/27
Okay, I just got a ton of email from ICE on questions I had passed on to
them for confirmation. Check em out y'all, and have a boss thanksgiving.
...
8 ) Cards off to the side under Great Secrets Buried There are in play
for uniqueness. So if your Durin's Axe is under GSBT, I cannot play
mine.
Of course.
I hope everyone had a boss Thanksgiving in '96 too.