Timing Rules - Example Snowstorm

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Bob654
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:02 pm

Here's the situation:
Player A has two companies. During the first company's MH phase, Player B plays Snowstorm and it resolves. The first company is thus immediately returned to it's site of origin (it has a [-me_wi-] in the site path) and it's MH phase ends. The second company's MH phase begins - it's new site is revealed and cards are drawn (they also have a [-me_wi-] in the site path). One of the cards Player A draws happens to be a Twilight.

I'm trying to figure out if the second company can use Twilight to cancel Snowstorm in a way that will allow the company to continue on to its destination. I think the answer is no, but here's my understanding of the timing/action rules:

After cards are drawn for the second company's MH phase (which happens immediately and concurrently with the revealing of the site card), the (passive?) condition that a company is moving with a [-me_wi-] in its site path triggers the action on Snowstorm that the company returns to its site of origin. Since the card was in play before the MH phase began, there's no time for Player A to create a chain of effects before this triggered action. Player A can play Twilight in response, but removing the card for Snowstorm won't remove the action from the chain of effects, so Twlight can remove Snowstorm but the company will still return to its site of origin because Snowstorm's action was already placed in the chain and it's condition (moving through a [-me_wi-] ) is still met upon resolution.

(Note: I'm using some Magic the Gathering logic here, namely that removing the card that created an action that is already on the stack does not remove/cancel the action from the stack. I'm not sure if that axiom applies in MECCG or not)

On the other hand, if I had a card like The Evenstar (that changes [-me_wi-] to [-me_bl-] ), I could play that in response to the triggered Snowstorm action to fizzle the 'return to site of origin' effect, because the condition of moving through a [-me_wi-] would no longer be met upon resolution of Snowstorm's action.

Do I have all of this right? Or please point out where my logic is broken.
Bob654
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:02 pm

...Or I just found this from the URD:
A card causing an action as a result of a passive condition must be in play when the action resolves, or else the action is canceled [CRF].
So assuming my understanding that the text of Snowstorm:
Each moving company with a Wilderness in its site path must return to its site of origin.
Is in fact an action with a passive condition (a company tries to move with a Wilderness in its site path), then it seems like responding to that trigger with a Twilight would cancel the "return to its site of origin" action.
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CDavis7M
Posts: 2816
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:10 am
Location: California

You are following most of the rules but missing some important ones. You can use a Twilight drawn from movement to stop a Snowstorm already in play.

You're right in that the cards drawn and the site being revealing technically happen together (Annotation 25b). So Twilight could be drawn and in your hand at the start of the movement/hazard phase. And you're right that Snowstorm triggers when the site is revealed (Annotation 9).

But this part is wrong:
Since the card was in play before the MH phase began, there's no time for Player A to create a chain of effects before this triggered action. Player A can play Twilight in response, but removing the card for Snowstorm won't remove the action from the chain of effects, so Twlight can remove Snowstorm but the company will still return to its site of origin because Snowstorm's action was already placed in the chain and it's condition (moving through a [-me_wi-] ) is still met upon resolution.
The 2 main rules you're missing are:
  • The effects of long and permanent-events last until they are discarded (METW p. 46, MELE p. 40 and 41).
  • An action in a chain of effects is negated if the conditions required to perform it are negated by another action that is resolved before it in the chain of effects. (METW p. 63, MELE p. 69)
If Snowstorm's effect triggers, the return-to-origin effect is declared in the following chain of effects. Twilight can be declared, targeting the Snowstorm long-event in response to the declaration of the return-to-origin effect. When the chain of effects resolves, Snowstorm is discarded by Twilight first. Since Snowstorm is no longer in play, it's effects are no longer in play. Therefore, the return-to-origin effect does not resolve because it is negated since the Snowstorm long-event itself is a condition for performing the return-to-origin effect.

This was later stated expressly:
A card causing an action as a result of a passive condition must be in play when the action resolves, or else the action is canceled.
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