Heart Grown Cold

The place to ask and debate all rules issues related to MECCG.
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Bergil
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Hello rules experts.

Player A is Fallen Gandalf and has Chambers in the Royal Court and Guarded Haven played on Minas Tirith, and No Strangers at This Time on Dol Amroth. Player B plays Heart Grown Cold. If player A has more than 4 Stage Points, what, if anything, happens?

Thanks!
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Konrad Klar
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Site cards for Minas Tirith, Dol Amroth are replaced by minion versions.
No Strangers at This Time is discarded, Chambers in the Royal Court is not.
No Strangers at This Time is discarded because hero permanent-event cannot target a minion site.
Chambers in the Royal Court is playable on hero Free Hold. But after resolution it does not require the site to be hero Free Hold anymore. If it would require so, then it would be discarded immediately, just because the target site is not a hero Free Hold anymore. The same for Rebuild the Town and Ruins&Lairs.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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Bergil
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Thank you!

This occurred in a game that ended with a 1-point difference in scores (where Fallen G had the lead), so it would have changed the outcome to a tie. Big consequence!
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CDavis7M
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Konrad Klar wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 2:32 pm No Strangers at This Time is discarded because hero permanent-event cannot target a minion site.
The rules state: "playing resources is handled normally with these exceptions: a hero resource event card may not target/affect a minion site card or a minion resource card." I get that the CRF states "a card that is played on a card continuously targets the card it is on," but the MEWH rules are on "playing resources" and the resource has already been played. None of the rules say anything about discarding events if the site type changes. And No Strangers explicitly affects other versions of sites.
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Bergil
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Hey Chris!

So are you saying that the sites change to minion version but the FW (on MInas Tirith) and hero (on Dol Amroth) resources played all stay?
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CDavis7M
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Bergil wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 3:02 pm So are you saying that the sites change to minion version but the FW (on MInas Tirith) and hero (on Dol Amroth) resources played all stay?
Well, Chambers makes MT a wizardhaven, which isn't affected by HGC. But also, I don't see any requirement to discard the resources if the site card is exchanged, either by their own effects (discard this card when the site is discarded or returned to its location deck) or by the MEWH rules (playing resources is handled normally with these exceptions: a hero resource event card may not target/affect a minion site card).

The MEWH restrictions on "targeting site and resource cards" are restrictions for playing resources. I don't see any indication that these restrictions apply to cards already in play.
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Konrad Klar
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CDavis7M wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 3:10 pm But also, I don't see any requirement to discard the resources if the site card is exchanged, either by their own effects (discard this card when the site is discarded or returned to its location deck) or by the MEWH rules (playing resources is handled normally with these exceptions: a hero resource event card may not target/affect a minion site card).
CRF wrote:A card that is played on a card continuously targets the card it is on.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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CDavis7M
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Konrad Klar wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 4:12 am
CDavis7M wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 3:10 pm But also, I don't see any requirement to discard the resources if the site card is exchanged, either by their own effects (discard this card when the site is discarded or returned to its location deck) or by the MEWH rules (playing resources is handled normally with these exceptions: a hero resource event card may not target/affect a minion site card).
CRF wrote:A card that is played on a card continuously targets the card it is on.
see above:
CDavis7M wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 2:52 pm
Konrad Klar wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 2:32 pm No Strangers at This Time is discarded because hero permanent-event cannot target a minion site.
The rules state: "playing resources is handled normally with these exceptions: a hero resource event card may not target/affect a minion site card or a minion resource card." I get that the CRF states "a card that is played on a card continuously targets the card it is on," but the MEWH rules are on "playing resources" and the resource has already been played. None of the rules say anything about discarding events if the site type changes. And No Strangers explicitly affects other versions of sites.
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Konrad Klar
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Targeting a card B by a card A is not limited to an act of playing the card A on card B.

No Strangers at This Time explicitly affects other versions of sites. But it does not mean that it can target minion version of a site.
If so, it could be played on minion site, even on opponent's site.
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CDavis7M
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Konrad Klar wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 6:31 am Targeting a card B by a card A is not limited to an act of playing the card A on card B.
Targeting is not limited to an act of playing the card but the MEWH restriction on targeting is explicitly limited to the act of "playing resources."
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Konrad Klar
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Why you are speaking such things?
MEWH wrote:TARGETING SITE AND RESOURCE CARDS
A hero resource card may not target/affect a minion site card or a minion resource card. A minion resource
card may not target/affect a hero site card or a hero resource card.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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CDavis7M
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That is not the complete rule. The rule needs to be read in its context. It says right there in the booklet and I copied the rule above.
CDavis7M wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 2:52 pm The rules state: "playing resources is handled normally with these exceptions: a hero resource event card may not target/affect a minion site card or a minion resource card."
The FW rules on "TARGETING SITE AND RESOURCE CARDS" are an exception for the purpose of playing resources, but not for any other purposes.
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Konrad Klar
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How
Using Items—All non-Orc/Troll characters may freely use both hero and minion
items.
fits in the context?
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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CDavis7M
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Konrad Klar wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:35 pm How
Using Items—All non-Orc/Troll characters may freely use both hero and minion
items.
fits in the context?
Activating an effect of resource (e.g. an item) is considered as playing that effect.

The MEWH rules specifically describe discarding of Fallen-wizard specific cards that have already been played when your Wizard leaves play. They don't mention discarding of cards already played on a site when the site alignment changes.
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Konrad Klar
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CDavis7M wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:52 pm Activating an effect of resource (e.g. an item) is considered as playing that effect.
Not activating is not considered.
Weapons, shields, helmets give some bonuses continuously.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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