I have been playing such that Miruvor must be discarded before being wounded. Meaning, it must be discarded/used preemptively (guessing that I would be wounded) due to the restrictions in place during the Strike Sequence. However, I was reviewing Annotation 19 (Other actions may be declared in response to a body check, in the same chain of effects, but these are limited to those actions that directly affect the body check dice- roll) and the CRF on Body Checks ("Affecting the body check" includes modifying the die roll or the body of the character making the check.) and now I have changed my position on Miruvor (I think it can be played after being wounded but before rolling the body check).
From what I can tell, this has not been discussed by the ICE netreps. There is one point on Miruvor by the CoE Netrep. However, the CoE Netrep followed the same reasoning I was following and failed to consider Annotation 19 and the CRF on Body Checks. I'll post the rules and then the CoE Ruling and some discussion here on the CoE Forums. Also, I saw nothing on Orc-liquor.
Do any of you guys not just play Balrog? Anyone use Miruvor? How do you all play? Let me know what you think.
Update: ICE Confirmed that Miruvor and Orc-liquor directly affect the body-check roll and may be played after being wounded.
I had been thinking that the Strike Sequence included the Strike Roll and the Body Check roll, but maybe it doesn't? "Until" is not "until after." And there is no 5) roll the dice 6) roll any body check in this Strike Sequence list above. Still, this doesn't matter in view of Annotation 19 and the CRF.MELE p. 33 wrote:THE STRIKE SEQUENCE
The "strike sequence" is the time from when a player declares that one of his characters will resolve a strike until the strike dice roll is
made and any associated body checks are made.
Strikes are resolved one at a time as decided by the defending player (i.e., he chooses a strike to resolve, the strike is resolved, he Chooses the next strike to resolve, the strike is resolved, etc.).
All of the factors affecting a strike must be decided during the strike sequence before making the roll (2D6). Cards that do not affect the strike may not be played during the strike sequence.
Address these factors in the following order:
1) The attacker may play hazard cards that affect the strike (these count toward the hazard limit against this company).
2) The attacker may decide to use any or all of his remaining (if any) -1 modifiers due to unallocated strikes (i.e., strikes in excess of the
3) A target untapped character may take a-3 modification so that he will not automatically tap following the strike sequence.
4) The defending player may play resource cards that affect the strike (up to one card that requires skill).
The CoE Netrep ruled that Miruvor cannot be discarded during the Strike Sequence. However, the CoE Netrep failed to consider Annotation 19 and the CRF on Body Checks. Still, maybe this ruling is accurate with respect to Miruvor used during the Strike Sequence (if the Strike Sequence does NOT include the Body Check roll).CoE #55 wrote:I'd like to know which of the following are allowed during the strike
9. Modify target character's body (discard Miruvor for instance).
*** You just gotta make things difficult, don't you? First, let me throw a bunch of CRF rulings at you, all from Turn Sequence Rulings, Movement/Hazard Phase, Combat, The Strike Sequence:
# Annotation 17: The only actions that may be declared during a strike sequence are those outlined in Annotation 18.
# Annotation 18: When a defending player chooses to resolve a strike against a particular character, the only actions that may be taken by
either player until the strike dice-roll is made are the following: playing hazard cards that affect the strike, the attacker may decide to
use any or all of his remaining -1 modifications due to strikes in excess of the company's size, a target untapped character may take a -3
modification so that he will not automatically tap, and the defending character may play resource cards that affect the strike. An action that
has the condition that a target character tap, but which otherwise has an effect not outlined here, may not be declared at this point. This is
true even if the recipient of the strike would be the target character tapping and thus receive -1 to his prowess.
# Interpret "may play resource cards that affect the strike" in annotation 18 as "may initiate resource / character effects that affect the strike".
# Getting rid of an event that boosts the strike's prowess is affecting the strike, as per annotation 18.
# There is time between the strike sequences to take actions that are otherwise legal.
Given that last ruling, everything you listed can happen between strikes. During a particular strike, however, only 1, 5 if it affects the prowess of the character facing the strike, and 10 if it affects the prowess of the character facing the strike, are allowed, per Annotation 18. Everything else, at best, will eventually affect the strike, but does not have an effect in and of itself, and is therefore illegal.
The only discussion I found on here:
DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:35 pm5. If a character is in the same company as the minor item Miruvor, and that character fails a strike against an attack, can the Miruvor be discarded before the body check roll is made to boost his body by 2, or must the Miruvor be discarded before the strikes are resolved?
Here are the rules that changed my mind (putting aside anything about "special actions" resulting from a strike since they aren't relevant to Miruvor)
So, certain actions may be declared in response to the body check, but only those that "affect the body check."Annotation 19: Following each successful strike or failed strike, a body check must be rolled (unless the failed strike has no body). However, if the strike calls for any special actions to follow it (e.g., a character wounded by "William" may be required to discard his items), these special actions are resolved before the body check. The body check is the first declared action in a nested chain of effects that immediately follows the strike dice-roll and special actions resulting from the strike. Other actions may be declared in response to a body check, in the same chain of effects, but these are limited to those actions that directly affect the body check dice- roll. E.g., Tookish Blood could not be declared in response to the body check caused by Giant Spiders wounding a Hobbit. No action may be declared in response to a special action resulting from a strike unless the special action is a dice-rolling action, i.e., a special action is generally considered synonymous with the strike dice-roll. If the special action is a dice-rolling action, an action may be declared in response to it if the action directly affects the dice-roll.
Meaning, that you could discard Miruvor in response to the body check to get +2 to body. This seems OK. After all, you can boost a character's prowess during the Strike Sequence, before the strike roll, even though you are restricted to only playing effects that "affect the strike." Same difference. Of course, you can use Miruvor to save a character after failing the body check just like Risky Blow cannot save a character from being wounded.CRF - Terms wrote: Body Check
"Affecting the body check" includes modifying the die roll or the body of the character making the check.