Council of Elrond

Hi,

I've been told that a character being taped for adunaphel can tap (if it's a ranger) in responde to prevent the effects of a river or (if is a saget) to play a marvels told.

My question is if this also happens with a heedless revelry played on guard, would a i be able to marvel something or playing an object with "thing stolen"?

You can always respond to Adunaphel if I am correct by tapping the character for river and such.

CRF On Guard wrote:A revealed on-guard card retroactively takes effect as though it were both declared and resolved immediately prior to the chain of effects during which it was revealed.

Since a revealed on-guard card declares and resolves at the time it is revealed, there is no opportunity to declare an action in response. Therefore a given entity cannot tap in response to the declaration of Heedless Revelry if it is revealed on guard. At least, that's the way I understand it.

Some cards revealed as on guard does not work in typical way. Hal An Eye Open, Searching Eye have targets nonexisten in m/h phase and must be declared in resolved in chain of effects in which was revealed to properly working (other on-guards prior this chain of effect).
Such cards have alwas phrase "may be revealed as on-guard"

So...

jaded wrote:So...

So what?

You may not respond to the card itself. But you can respond to the effect the card creates. So you would not be able to respond to the heedless, but you could respond to the tap effect it does.

Sauron wrote:You may not respond to the card itself. But you can respond to the effect the card creates. So you would not be able to respond to the heedless, but you could respond to the tap effect it does.

Hey! It is short-event. Its actions are applied immediatelly when it resolves.

Right. The tapping occurs as part of the resolution of a chain of effects (so to speak; it declares and resolves at the same time); I don't think you can declare new actions in response to this.

So, if I understand correctly...

I can tap one of my characters in response to the effect of heedless revelry or adunaphel (converted in short event) and play marvels told, right?

I think people try to say yes in a rather complicated way.

...and that i can not play thing stolen in response of the effects (taping characters) heedless revelry because it's a short even and the card has to be resolved inmediately.

You cannot tap in response to an on-guard Heedess Revelry. It declares and resolves instantly. The tapping effect is part of the resolution of a chain of effects; unless I'm mistaken, once a chain of effects begin resolving, you cannot declare new actions until the chain is resolved.

Leon wrote:I think people try to say yes in a rather complicated way.

People are trying to say "how exactly it is working" and "why in this way, and not other".

Cards having phrase "may be revealed as on-guard" works differently than other cards revealed on-guard, they are resolved in the chain of effects in which was revealed (not prior).
Why? Otherwise such cards could not be working, because its target is not in play or is not even declared (burglary attempt was not in M/H phase and is not declared prior chain of effect in which was declared - tautology).
Now question is if one ability of such on-guards is gone (declaring/resolving prior chain of effect in which was revealed), second ability (immediate resolving at the moment of declaration) is still valid?
I think yes. Why? Otherwise Heedles Revelry would be senseless as on-guard. It is nearly always possible in site phase declaring of other action in the same chain of effect, effectively avoiding effects of this card.

P.S.
Really complicated way of saying "yes".
(I like it)

Konrad Klar wrote:Cards having phrase "may be revealed as on-guard" works differently than other cards revealed on-guard, they are resolved in the chain of effects in which was revealed (not prior).

Why? Otherwise such cards could not be working, because its target is not in play or is not even declared

On the contrary, cards which state they may be revealed/played on guard are able to be so revealed whether or not the normal conditions for playing them apply, but:

CRF wrote:A revealed on-guard card retroactively takes effect as though it were both declared and resolved immediately prior to the chain of effects during which it was revealed.

applies to any revealed on guard card, whether played through the rules or by specific card text.