Council of Elrond

Hi ME Dudes,
I like to know something about the BA resource card "Gangways over the fire".

The cards says: (...) may attempt to move...to a new site they have not used yet this turn. (...)

If someone tried to move to an under-deep site and don't roll the roll necessary to reach that site, can he try it again in his or her same turn?

I think not, because it's not a "new" site, he or her already tried to reach there.

Is that right or not??

Please somebody help my....

Cheers,
Heiko

If company tried to move to an under-deep site and did not roll the number necessary to reach that site, then its movement/hazard phase proceeds as if the company had not moved.
Only moving companies may take advantage of Gangways Over The Fire and only at the end of their M/H phase.

Sure. That's clear for me.

Example:
A company moved from the Under-gates to the under-Leas, than try to move to the wind-deeps, but don't roll enough.
Can he try to move to the wind-deeps again in his 3rd m/h phase in the same turn or not?

Cheers,
Heiko

Assuming that "A company moved from the Under-gates to the under-Leas" happened in 1st M/H phase of the company:
at the start of 2nd M/H phase the company was trying to move to The Wind-Deeps, unsuccessfully, so it was returned to The Under-leas, and rest of the 2nd M/H phase was proceeded as if the company had not moved.
At the end of 2nd M/H phase the company does not have an option to take 3rd M/H phase. Because the company is not "moving company".

And yes: the company was using The Wind-Deeps in that turn. Without big success but still.

Perfect explanation!
That makes it absolutly clear (for me:).
Many thanks and respect,
Heiko / Grishnakh

http://www.councilofelrond.org/forum/vi ... =16&t=1289

Mikko said he was going to overturn a NetRep ruling; did he ever get around to actually doing it? Until then, I'm afraid that by the authority of the NetRep, you can keep using Gangways until you've failed the roll to all adjacent sites. Whether use of a site includes rolling to try to get there is something that was not covered by that ruling.

If I had three companies and GotF in play, and company #1 moved from site A to B and then (using GotF) to C, could company #2 after a move from D to B attempt to move (using GotF) from B to C? Also, could company #3 attempt to (non-GotF) move from B to C? That would be three companies moving from B to C during the same turn.

#1: A -> B -> C
#2: D -> B -> C
#3: B -> C

Gangways operates on a per company basis. The movements of one company will not affect other companies' ability to use Gangways.

Okay, but wouldn't having multiple companies move from B to C during the same turn violate the following part of (MELE) rules:

SPLITTING A COMPANY AT A NON-DARKHAVEN SITE
[...]
Clarification: These restrictions mean that two companies may not start at the same site and then move to the same site separately (i.e., in such a situation the two companies would have to move as one company).

The companies start at A, D, B so it does not violate the quoted rule.

What about companies hit by an effect that returns them to the site of origin? Their movement/hazard phase "immediately ends"; are they allows to trigger Gangways then? Or are they not considered a moving company at that point (aren't all companies not moving at that point)?

The Balrog: Gangways over the Fire
Resource: Permanent-event

Balrog specific. At the end of its movement/hazard phase, each of your moving companies may attempt to move with Under-deeps movement to a new site. They have not used yet this turn. Another site card is played and a movement/hazard phase immediately follows. Subtract the number of complete movement/hazard phases the company has taken so far this turn from its Under-deeps movement rolls. You may start the game with this card in lieu of playing a minor item. Cannot be duplicated.

Theo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:25 am Or are they not considered a moving company at that point (aren't all companies not moving at that point)?

According to me an end of M/H phase is a period that is part of M/H. I.e. a M/H is still proceeded during the period; a moving company is still considered moving.

Nothing is officially decided in question When a Company is at a Site.
https://councilofelrond.org/forum/viewt ... 145&t=3544

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:47 pm Proposed rules:

"A company that moved in M/H phase is considered at site after completion its M/H phase, unless the company takes another M/H phase".

"If company is returned to its former site of origin after a site card representing the former site of origin leaved active play, the site card is returned to play in the orientation in which it was just before leaved active play"

CRF wrote:If a company returns to its site of origin, its site path immediately disappears, and its
movement/hazard phase immediately ends.

I do not know whether this means that a period "end of M/H phase" immediately starts or that "M/H phase is immediately completed".
Independently from above, a company returned to a site of origin is not moving. It cannot take advantage of Gangways Over The Fire (its effect is not triggered btw.).

EDIT:
"Independently from above, a company returned to a site of origin is not at site" -> "independently from above, a company returned to a site of origin is not moving"

The End of the M/H phase is skipped when returned to origin because the Movement/Hazard phase is a 6 step procedure with steps 5 and 6 being simultaneous. So the M/H phase is already over when (step 5) the once "new-site" now "site-of-origin" card is removed by the "returning" effect.

There are ICE rulings applying this reasoning to other effects that would trigger at the end of the movement/hazard phase, like corruption checks.


By the way, the ABP/AEP clarification/proposal fails to account for this.

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:44 am According to me an end of M/H phase is a period that is part of M/H. I.e. a M/H is still proceeded during the period; a moving company is still considered moving.

So yes. My previous post is incompatible with notion that end of (company's; to be strict) M/H phase happens at the moment when company's M/H phase is concluded (as described by Annotation 25a).

CDavis7M wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:45 pm By the way, the ABP/AEP clarification/proposal fails to account for this.

If my previous post would be incompatible with the ABP/AEP clarification/proposal, then I would consider it as a problem.

Theo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:25 am What about companies hit by an effect that returns them to the site of origin? Their movement/hazard phase "immediately ends"; are they allows to trigger Gangways then? Or are they not considered a moving company at that point (aren't all companies not moving at that point)?

According to my view of game:

Company's M/H phase consists a periods: beginning of, middle of, end of the M/H phase. The M/H phase is ended when the period "end of the M/H phase" is ended. The M/H phase is not concluded yet.
The M/H phase is concluded according to Annotation 25a, when a hands are reconciled and when new site's card (for moving company) is removed from table (if required).

So ending of company's M/H phase is not synonymous of starting an end of the M/H phase period.