Council of Elrond

If I have played Hidden Haven on Hermit's Hill (how's that for alliteration? ), may I still make use of Hermit Hill's special ability?

Special: During the site phase, a covert company may discard two minor items they bear to make any one gold ring item (regardless of its text restrictions) playable at this site this turn.

It seems to me that this would not be affected by

Nothing is considered playable as written on the site card.

, as this ability is not under the Playable: text.

If I can still use Hermit's Hill's ability, and Hidden Haven is in play, may the item in question be of any alignment?

Hermit's Hill says "...make any one gold ring item playable at the site this turn."

So I think Hidden Haven's text overrides and you cannot use this ability.

I think that in such case covert company may still discard two minor items they bear to make any one gold ring item (regardless of its text restrictions) playable at this site this turn.

Even if "Nothing is considered playable as written on the site card", one gold ring is then normally playable and can be played using Thorough Search.

it won't work - even with Through Search/Catch an Elusive Scent

Hidden Haven cancels anything that's playable so it will also cancel the new item playeble there - as Wacho said

and on the other hand Through Search/Catch an Elusive Scent say that an item normally playable at the site may be played - and if you have to discard 2 minors to make an item playable then it's not normally playable...

I'd contest that -- normal means as written on the card, and according to the card's text, if a company has discarded the items, the gold ring is playable.

Likewise, the hero Palantir of Amon Sul is normally worth 5 MPs if it has been stored and normally worth 3 if it hasn't.

I think.

Bandobras Took wrote:I'd contest that -- normal means as written on the card, and according to the card's text, if a company has discarded the items, the gold ring is playable.

Likewise, the hero Palantir of Amon Sul is normally worth 5 MPs if it has been stored and normally worth 3 if it hasn't.

I think.

I think it's the other way around - the hero Palantir of Amon Sul is normally worth 3 MPs and if stored 5

|Highwayman| wrote:it won't work - even with Through Search/Catch an Elusive Scent

Hidden Haven cancels anything that's playable so it will also cancel the new item playeble there - as Wacho said

and on the other hand Through Search/Catch an Elusive Scent say that an item normally playable at the site may be played - and if you have to discard 2 minors to make an item playable then it's not normally playable...

Hidden Haven nor any other card/effect cannot change normal playability or any other normal value or ability. It can change actual playability.
So "Nothing is considered playable as written on the site card." regardless what is written on the site card. Although some items/information are still normally playable at the site. No conflict here.

Konrad Klar wrote: Hidden Haven nor any other card/effect cannot change normal playability or any other normal value or ability. It can change actual playability.
So "Nothing is considered playable as written on the site card." regardless what is written on the site card. Although some items/information are still normally playable at the site. No conflict here.

Right, I just think that gold rings aren't normally playable at Hermit's Hill (or major items as hero Hermit's Hill) - you have to do something to make them playable there, so to that's not 'normally playable'

I don't think using Hermit Hill's special text to play a gold ring is possible when Hidden Haven is played on it. Hidden Haven states "Nothing is considered playable as written on the site card" and that seems fairly self explanatory to me...

Jambo wrote:I don't think using Hermit Hill's special text to play a gold ring is possible when Hidden Haven is played on it. Hidden Haven states "Nothing is considered playable as written on the site card" and that seems fairly self explanatory to me...

So Thorough Search cannot be used here to play minor item if Hidden Haven is played?

Thorough Search clearly stipulates "normally" on the card. Hidden Haven doesn't mention anything to do with "normally". Instead, all it states is "Nothing is considered playable as written on the site card."

Can you answer my question?

as far as I know 'normally' in MECCG means as written on the card without any effects

so even though Hidden Haven may be played on some site - normally some items may be played there (as written under Playable), and Thourough Search/Catch an Elusive Scent refers to items normally playable at a site

Normal means as written on the card, not considering other card's effects.

As written on the card, the items are playable if the company has discarded the minor items.

Therefore I think Catch an Elusive Scent would work.

On a side note, Palantir of Amon Sul says "5 Marshalling Points if stored at a Haven." Therefore, as written on the card itself, it is normally worth 5 MPs if it has been stored.

Konrad Klar wrote:

Jambo wrote:I don't think using Hermit Hill's special text to play a gold ring is possible when Hidden Haven is played on it. Hidden Haven states "Nothing is considered playable as written on the site card" and that seems fairly self explanatory to me...

So Thorough Search cannot be used here to play minor item if Hidden Haven is played?

I'd say it can. But I don't know what this has got to do with the original question, since that mentioned nothing about Thorough Search? It simply stated Hermit's Hill and Hidden Haven....