It seems Foolish Words is a special case, it does not follow normal on-guard rules (card text overrides them). So it in fact could have been revealed and played on The Mouth in the scenario you described.Sauron wrote:So where does this leave us?
Sure, except that (according to me? ) Foolish Words does not affect the character it is played on and Lure of the Senses does (it gives CPs). So while the situations are not the same, an on-guard targetting an "unrelated party" is certainly not exceptional.Konrad Klar wrote:Actually that part is not exceptional. You can, for example, reveal on-guard Lure of Senses and play it on any character* in company in respose to playing ally.
So you're saying that if the target becomes temporarily unvalid at any point after the move/haz phase (prior to revealing the on-guard), it remains unvalid? What if the changes in validity occur during the move/haz phase?Konrad Klar wrote:It is possible that so described target will lose in site phase capabilities that make it a valid target on-guard and aquire them again. E.g. bearer of special item ring would lose it in site phase and then aquire another special ring item (in result of testing a gold ring item, or in result of transfer). In the meantime he was not valid target of The Roving Eye (that is prepared to be revealed and played as on-guard).
However target itself (that particular bearer) had exist all required time.
Clarification: All targets of the on-guard card must have existed and be valid targets from the movement/hazard phase up until the on-guard card is revealed.
(i) Must the target have been valid at the time of placing the on-guard, or would be it enough that the target became valid after placing the on-guard but still during move/haz phase? For example Cirdan has Lure of Nature (played on an earlier turn) and I place Lure of Nature on-guard. Now before ending his move/haz phase, Cirdan plays Marvels Told on his Lure, making Cirdan a valid target for the on-guard.
(ii) What if the target was valid when placing the on-guard, then became unvalid, then valid again all within the same move/haz phase? For example Cirdan is moving and I play Shut Yer Mouth on-guard, then play another SYM on Cirdan. Again Cirdan uses Marvels Told and gets rid of the SYM on him during the move/hazard phase.
Checking the validity of the target should probably start from the moment of placing the on-guard. In which case...
Ending my post with a small observation. Let's consider two companies, A and B, moving to the same site and joining there. An on-guard Lure of Expedience is placed for company A. It seems that the on-guard can't be revealed and played on a character (originally) from company B since the target wasn't valid when the on-guard was placed. Foolish Words would of course be legal. On-guards are tricky!Possible Clarification wrote: All targets of the on-guard card must have existed and been valid from the moment of placing the on-guard up until it is revealed.