Defeating an attack from a Dragon faction

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Eyelid
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Hello,

As stated on Dragon faction cards, Dragon factions are Dragon manifestations. The Lidless Eye rules say that
If an attack from a Dragon faction is defeated, remove the Dragon from play. No player receives its marshalling points.
The CRF indicates that
If you defeat the attack from a Dragon manifestation, you get kill marshalling points from the manifestation as if you had defeated a creature.
In Rules Digest #43, I found the following:
Do characters who kill a Dragon faction played by a Ringwraith player get the marshalling points from the faction for themselves?

Yes.
(which would seem to imply that whoever defeats the attack from a Dragon faction would receive faction marshalling points.)

Which rule applies?


Thanks.
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Konrad Klar
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Eyelid wrote: In Rules Digest #43, I found the following:
Do characters who kill a Dragon faction played by a Ringwraith player get the marshalling points from the faction for themselves?

Yes.
I cannot find such text here http://www.meccg.net/netherlands/meccg/ ... coe43.html, nor in other copies of Rulings Digest.
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Eyelid
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Konrad, I got these off of the old rec.games.trading-cards.misc group. I created a file with all the digests I could find. The questions were answered by the official MECCG NetRep (Craig O'brien, then Van Norton after him).
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Konrad Klar
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Then a question is just "their words against CRF".
It is beyond my competences to judge which is more and which is less "official".
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Bandobras Took
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The most likely interpretation is that the dragon faction is treated somewhat like a hazard creature -- no * next to the MPs, so Minion players don't receive the MPs, whereas hero players would. Granted that this is not explicitly stated, that would be my guess as to the reasoning behind the statements.
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Eyelid
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Okay, so what happens if you do defeat this attack? Do you get faction marshalling points or kill marshalling points? Or are you saying only heroes would get the kill marshalling points?

Thanks.
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"If you believe in Eternity, then life is irrelevant". House M.D.
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Bandobras Took
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I would say (though this may be a good one for the NetRep to clarify):

If you are Hero, you get full kill MPs for defeating the faction.
If you are FW, you get 1 kill MP for defeating the faction, subject to modification by stage resources/special abilities.
If you are Minion, you get no MPs for killing the faction, as per LE rules.

That makes the most intuitive sense to me.

The wording of the rules digest means that the kill MPs are equivalent to the faction's MPs, not that you receive faction MPs for killing the dragon, whoever happens to be killing it.
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Vastor Peredhil
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for me the real question is can one use cards like Bow of Dragon-horn cards that effect hazard creature attacks against dragon-factions, since they are not, and are not clarified like Ahunts, which state they considered as much.

Remnants of Old Robberies would also not work which is a pity . . .
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Bandobras Took
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You've answered your own question: the factions do not say that they are creature attacks, therefore they are not.
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Eyelid
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All right, sounds logical to me. Pending an official ruling from the NetRep team, I'll go with this should the situation arise. Thanks.
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Konrad Klar
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I do not know, whether it was taken into account, or overlooked.
Lidless Eye, Using MELE with METW, Combat, Marshalling Points wrote:A Wizard player does not receive marshalling points for defeating a creature with an "*" next to its marshalling points or for defeating a detainment attack.

If a hero company defeats an attack by a Ringwraith's Dragon faction, the hero player receives its marshalling points as kill marshalling points.
Seems like statement below applies only to Ringwraith vs. Ringwraith game.
If an attack from a Dragon faction is defeated, remove the Dragon from play. No player receives its marshalling points.
and if so, there is no contradiction between CRF and Lidless Eye at this point.
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Eyelid
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Konrad, thanks for pointing that out. I had not thoroughly checked the section of the rule book outlining interactions between an METW and an MELE player.
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Annatar
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Bandobras Took wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:26 am If you are Hero, you get full kill MPs for defeating the faction.
If you are FW, you get 1 kill MP for defeating the faction, subject to modification by stage resources/special abilities.
If you are Minion, you get no MPs for killing the faction, as per LE rules.
If you are FW Alatar and you defeats a Dragon faction, you receives 1 or all marshalling points?
Alatar wrote:Unique. Hazards your companies defeat (even with *) are worth full kill Marshaling points. I you have more than 7 , all detainment attacks against your companies attack normally instead. If at one of his Wizardhavens [W] when a hazard creature attacks one of your companies, he may immediately join that company. Alatar must face a strike from the creature (in all cases). Following all of the creature's attacks, Alatar must(if untapped) and make a corruption check.
But in CRF i find this:
CRF, Rulings by Term, Dragon wrote:If you defeat the attack from a Dragon manifestation, you get kill marshalling points from the manifestation as if you had defeated a creature.
Is "creature" synonymous from "hazard"?
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Konrad Klar
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Annatar wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:36 pm Is "creature" synonymous from "hazard"?
No. "Creatures" are subset of "hazards".
Annatar wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:36 pm If you are FW Alatar and you defeats a Dragon faction, you receives 1 or all marshalling points?
So full kill marshalling points.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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