Council of Elrond

Hello to all,

I have a question about the Ents of Fangorn's standard modification.

The card reads:

Unique. Playable at Wellinghall if the influence check is greater than 9. Standard Modifications: Hobbits (+4).

Under "Standard Modifications", the Lidless Eye rule book states that:

Most faction cards list some “standard modifications” to the influence check based only upon what other factions are already in play for both players.

My question is: if the Hobbits faction is in play, will it provide the +4 modification to the influence check?

Now, I realize of course that according to the Wizards rules, the standard modification on the Ents can only refer to Hobbit characters and not factions, but since the Lidless Eye rules are an updated version of the original Wizards rules, I was just wondering whether the Hobbits faction would actually provide that +4 or not.

Thanks for your help.

Hobbits = characters
The Hobbits = faction

so "The" makes all the difference

Vastor, the Hobbits faction from the base set is simply called "Hobbits". Are you referring to something else?

Whatsoever answer will be, it will have effect on Hobbits faction too.

P.S. I have the "Hobbits" faction card from The Wizards Unlimited Edition and scan of "Hobbits" faction card from The Wizards Limited Edition. No trace of "The Hobbits" card.

Thanks for confirming, Konrad.

that is what you get playing dream cards, all along, so I guess one could argue for both. leaving out brains. as TW rules ought to be used for TW cards...

The relevant rule should come from the ME:TW rulebook:

Standard Modification: Most faction cards list some "standard modifications" to the influence check based only upon the race of the character that was tapped to make the influence check.

The faction was part of the Wizards set; factions that receive modifiers based on other factions being in play were introduced in the LE set, and are Minion.

Bandobras Took wrote:The relevant rule should come from the ME:TW rulebook:

Standard Modification: Most faction cards list some "standard modifications" to the influence check based only upon the race of the character that was tapped to make the influence check.

The faction was part of the Wizards set; factions that receive modifiers based on other factions being in play were introduced in the LE set, and are Minion.

I don't think you can really go with that. So rules printed in the Balrog set don't apply to TW cards. Because detainment wasn't in the TW rule set it only applies to the set it came from?

Also there are hero factions with standard modifications that don't rely on race. Such as Wild Hounds, which is based on your Avatar.

I think that using the Hobbits faction to modify influence attempt against the Ents of Fangorn is not a new exploatation of rules (which is envention, even if this is controversive sometimes). It is just exploatation of wording - two quite diferent things coincidentially named identically*. Not so streched as using bonus against Blue Mountain Dwarves against dwarf characters with Blue Mountain Dwarf-Hold as home site**, but in the same fashion (but in opposite direction).

*) I think this is just overlooked by errata.
**) This one is covered by errata (although this requires only clarification).

Sauron wrote:

Bandobras Took wrote:The relevant rule should come from the ME:TW rulebook:

Standard Modification: Most faction cards list some "standard modifications" to the influence check based only upon the race of the character that was tapped to make the influence check.

The faction was part of the Wizards set; factions that receive modifiers based on other factions being in play were introduced in the LE set, and are Minion.

I don't think you can really go with that. So rules printed in the Balrog set don't apply to TW cards. Because detainment wasn't in the TW rule set it only applies to the set it came from?

Also there are hero factions with standard modifications that don't rely on race. Such as Wild Hounds, which is based on your Avatar.

Not quite I meant; I was saying that proper interpretation of a possible confusion in the wording of the Ents of Fangorn is clarified if you look at the rules set the card came from rather than a rules set intended for factions which have different kinds of standard modifications.

Besides, the direct quote from the Balrog rules is as follows (I did not refer to it mainly because the Balrog turn summary isn't readily available online):

Roll the dice, add the character's unused direct influence, any standard modifications for the character's race (heroes) or other factions in play (minions), and any other modifications from other cards.

--> Bandobras, thank you for pointing that out. I forgot to check the Balrog rules book. The quote is a definitive answer to my question.

Bandobras Took wrote:

Roll the dice, add the character's unused direct influence, any standard modifications for the character's race (heroes) or other factions in play (minions), and any other modifications from other cards.

I see what you meant about the TW rules. However my example again breaks this rule from the Balrog rule set. Not listed is the standard modification for Radagast being your avatar

--> Brian, since the rules specify that "Wizard" is a race and considering that "Avatar" is just another word for "Wizard", wouldn't that excerpt from the Balrog rules book include your example?

Eyelid wrote:--> Brian, since the rules specify that "Wizard" is a race and considering that "Avatar" is just another word for "Wizard", wouldn't that excerpt from the Balrog rules book include your example?

Not really, since the Standard Modification says for The Character's Race. Not for the Avatar's race. You might be able to make an argument if Radagast himself was the one doing the influencing.

Side note, I find your username amusing. Since I'm Sauron you must be my missing Eyelid, get back over here and attach yourself back to my eye, it's getting dry, I'd like to blink every once in a while or take a nap

I actually did choose that handle for precisely that reason!