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The Under-roads vs Fallen Wizards
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:44 am
by Bruce
The Under-roads wrote:The roll required for minions to move between adjacent Under-deeps sites is decreased by 3. Discards and prohibits the subsequent play of The Way is Shut.
(bold mine)
If a Fallen Wizard plays this card, do all his companies not containing orcs/trolls benefit from its effect?
Re: The Under-roads vs Fallen Wizards
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:07 pm
by Bandobras Took
Since Fallen Wizard Companies are not minion companies (so far as I know), the modification to the number required does not affect them. However, preventing the way is shut does apply.
Re: The Under-roads vs Fallen Wizards
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:02 pm
by Wacho
Actually that is not correct, Ben. Fallen-wizard companies that include an orc or troll are considered minion companies. See COE Digest #110.
Re: The Under-roads vs Fallen Wizards
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:59 pm
by Bandobras Took
Thank you; I knew it had been discussed, but couldn't find a ruling.
Re: The Under-roads vs Fallen Wizards
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:35 am
by Konrad Klar
COE Digest #110 wrote:(7) Two questions regarding fallen wizard decks have arisen:
(a) When is a fallen wizard player's character considered hero, minion, or other?
(b) When is a fallen wizard player's company considered hero, minion, covert, overt, or other?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Characters can be:
(a) for a hero player
(i) hero
(b) for a minion player
(i) minion
(c) for a fw player
(i) hero (non-orcs non-trolls)
(ii) minion (orcs including half-orcs, trolls)
Companies can be:
(a) for a hero player
(i) hero
(b) for a minion player
(i) covert minion
(ii) overt minion
(c) for a fw player
(i) covert hero (companies with nothing making them overt)
(ii) overt
(1) non-minion (due to overt-making non-orc non-troll ally, Freeze the Flesh, or Cast from the Order)
(2) minion (due to presence of an orc, a troll, or a half-orc with other characters than only half-orcs and men)
Part regarding FW companies is doubtful.
CRF, Turn Sequence, Site Phase, Company vs. Company Combat wrote:@ Minion and hero companies can attack each other. Hero companies may not attack
each other. A Fallen Wizard covert company is considered a hero company.
Because quoted texts exists (and is valid only) in its context "A Fallen Wizard covert company is considered a hero company." should be read outside that context as "For purpose CvCC a Fallen Wizard covert company is considered a hero company". This means that outside CvCC covert non-hero FW companies may exist (Company with Orc is not hero, but at the same time Half-orc does make its company overt).
Re: The Under-roads vs Fallen Wizards
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:33 am
by Bruce
Tnx. I remembered something about a complicated taxonomy of all possible covert/overt/hero/minion/noncovert/nonovert attributes for companies controlled by a FW too, but couldn't find it.
My doubt stems from the fact that FW players can use Open to the Summons in lieu of a starting minor item (as an alternative to thrall of the voice) to play an agent (with mind 5 or less) in the starting company, although OttS says
Open to the Summons wrote:Playable on a minion company. One agent minion may be played with target company at a DarkhavenÑplace this card with the agent. -1 to his mind to a minimum of 1. This card may be played with a starting company in lieu of a minor item. When played as such, reveal it when starting companies are determined as if it were a character. Cannot be duplicated on a given character.
(bold mine)
Then I didn't know if the "minion" keyword limits the use of such a resource for a FW to orc/troll companies, or if its sole purpose is to limit the card's effect to the companies with the same alignment of the player, i.e. Under-roads would not benefit a hero player if played by a minion opponent, but can still be played by a FW and affect all of his companies.
Re: The Under-roads vs Fallen Wizards
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:00 am
by Konrad Klar
And it is a valid concern and at the same time reason for errata.
CRF, Errata (Cards), Open to the Summons wrote:Card Erratum: Replace "minion company" with "company." Does not allow you to
start with a character that says he cannot be in the starting company.
Re: The Under-roads vs Fallen Wizards
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:03 am
by Bruce
Thanks, now everything is clear.
