Testing For The One At Mount Doom -- no victory?

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Shapeshifter
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Bandobras Took wrote:Is there a section in the Companion on winning the game? What does it say about One Ring victories?
Unfortunately that is all the Companion has to say about One Ring victories. BTW, my first quote was from the section "1. victory conditions" in the Wizards Companion like in the original METW rules book.
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Bandobras Took
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Unfortunately, then, the Companion does reiterate the rule that to win, you need to move the One Ring to Mount Doom and, to paraphrase, destroy the One Ring. Page 53 is specifically mentioned, it seems, as more on Rings, not more on winning.
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Sam.Gamdschie
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Nice discussion on this topic.
Interestingly, in the German translation the text is written as follows:
ME:TW Das Handbuch wrote:Der Eine Ring kann vernichtet werden, wenn sich die Gemeinschaft am Schicksalsberg befindet und folgendes geschieht:
[...]Schicksalsklüfte[...]oder
[...]Gollums Schicksal[...]wird gespielt.
My translation to englisch:
ME:TW Das Handbuch wrote:The One Ring can be destroyed, if the company is at Mount Doom and the following occurs:
[...]Cracks of Doom[...]or
[...]Gollum's Fate[...] are played.
In this rules book no movement of The One Ring is mentioned.
Furthermore, as mentioned before, on the both mentioned card is written, that you win the game if successfully played.
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Vastor Peredhil
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well german translations does not mean anything, since they created more errata & false translations, so you see it could just be another translation error ...
dirhaval
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My what a debate! Deep, meaningful referenced debate is healthy. All these years I have not thought about this Mount Doom question.
You know did the common folk really call it Mount Doom? Would they not ask what "doom" is mentioned? Little Tommy did not do his homework;
he got sent to Mount Doom!

*
Okay. Only Olorin gave a glimmer of what I support.
For the record, I think thematically, it would be a nifty requirement. I'm not even opposed to it as a rule, but certainly have difficulty claiming it is a rule now. A simple ban on testing gold rings at Mount Doom makes more sense to me, because who the hell would have gone there not knowing what the ring in his or her pocket was for?

My 2 cents,
Olorin
I recall in the MELP book, I was lucky to get it all those years ago, is that when a debate cannot be won by rules, then you go thematically, which is why I choose MECCG over MTG, which my coworkers play still right now. He says that MTG revamped the wording on the cards a long time ago. What an idea. Thank you Vastor!
I support moving the damn ring to Mount Doom. This makes it more fun with the One Ring in play for at least a movement phase. Two, it stops your opponent squatting there hoping to influence or steal it away, but allows an agent to sit and ambush you. Isildur found the One Ring at Mount Doom but could not discard it. Elrond did not influence it away. Did Isildur have a change of heart? If so then he would of walked back into Mordor. What if you move it to Mount Doom, your opponent visits and steals it, then you influence it back? You can still dunk without moving away since the One Ring had not left the Cracks. Or May be ICE made an error in the rule. Was not what the game was about? Getting the Ring to somewhere? ICE did not say that the Ring had to be tested in the Shire? The Scroll of Isildur is a greater item, it could be played at the Iron-Deeps. How in the world did that parchment get there?

I do not play MECCG much anymore. I can play either way by my opponent. Is it not true that the player without the Ring at Mount Doom can play Cracks of Doom hoping for a fail check?

I saw a sign on Mount Doom one day it read:
Dunking on the Right. Squatting on the Left.
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miguel
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dirhaval wrote:Is it not true that the player without the Ring at Mount Doom can play Cracks of Doom hoping for a fail check?
Not true.

This whole debate is really a non-issue for me. There will be an official ruling in the next digest.
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Bandobras Took
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Hehe. Maybe I'll actually get to see that digest. :) I'll reserve further comments until I'm able to. ;)
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CDavis7M
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I can see why people are confused but you do NOT have to actually move The One Ring to Mt. Doom in order to win.
1 • THE VICTORY CONDITIONS
The game ends when one of the following occurs during play:
...
2) If you move The One Ring to Mount Doom and play certain cards—The One Ring is destroyed and you win
The primary confusion seems to come from a misunderstanding of what the em dash means (—) and the difference between allowances in the rules compared to restrictions in the rules.

The em dash merely links two related topics. It does not create some sort of IF/THEN requirement. Here, the em dash is linking the actual victory condition (destroying The One Ring) with a description of the means to achieve that (moving and playing cards).

Furthermore, even if this statement was taken as a rule, it would merely be an allowance, not a restriction. The player might be allowed to win by moving and playing certain cards, but there is no restrictive language in this statement. One allowance in the rules does not preclude other allowances in the cards (e.g., an allowance to play one and only one character in the organization phase is not a restriction against card text allowing you to play a character). However, restrictions in the rules do preclude allowances in the cards (e.g., Fallen Wizard's may not play characters with greater than 5 mind even if card text allows a character to be played). Nothing in the Victory Conditions section would prevent Cracks of Doom's effect "its bearer's player wins" from being resolved. The card text including the effect of winning the game is resolved per the timing rules. It's that simple.

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And the ICE Netrep has already said as much but of course no one bothered to check.
From: sfr...@comet.net (Scott Frazer)
Subject: Re: [METW] Side Board Strategy?
Date: 1996/07/05

ro...@suba.com (Roberto Ullfig) wrote:

>O.K. What's the deal with the sideboard? (a totally new
>concept for me). What kind of cards would you want to
>put in it? All I see is that you'll get a slightly
>different set of cards the next time through the
>playdeck. Is it there just so that you can better
>respond to your opponent's deck next time around? I am
>sure there are cards that allow you to draw from the
>discard pile but I'm looking for some more general
>strategies.

Think of the sideboard as a place to put stuff until you're ready for it.

Playing a One Ring deck? why have the Ring in the main deck? you might
draw it very early and lose the slot for it (I never test for the ring
until I hit Mt. Doom anyway...)
This is just an offhand comment from ICE Netrep Scott Frazer — of course you can test for The One Ring at Mt. Doom

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Of course, testing at Mt. Doom was likely unintended as shown by the hazards, but the Designers had opportunity to clarify the rules and they never bothered to clarify this aspect despite issuing hundreds of other clarifications. Instead, they created In the Heart of His Realm. Unfortunately some players misunderstood how In the Heart of His Realm works, which is probably how this conversation about moving The One Ring to Mt. Doom started in the first place.
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