In the heart of his Realm

[Bandobras Took]

Well it seems we're never going to see eye to eye on this.

I guess the question you're asking is if removing the use of sage / spell cards is an action.

I define it as yes, you define it as no.

Hee hee . . .

ICE saw no real difference between effects and actions.

Effects that are played during the organization phase, and depend on the site or site path of a moving company, create an effect which is not declared until the new site is revealed. If the site or site path is not of the appropriate type when the effect resolves, the resource has no effect. If the company has multiple movement/hazard phases on the same turn, the card applies separately to each phase, having an effect only if the correct conditions are met.

I give up. Their rules have absolutely no internal consistency whatsoever.

[Jambo]

But that's for effects that are played during the organisation phase...

The comparison of ItHoHR with Snowstorm isn't really a valid one, since once resolved, the action of returning a company back to its site of origin isn't one that's reversible. Ahunts also work by the same manner: a passive condition sets up an action, which once resolved is no longer reversible.

Bane of the Ithil Stone, ItHoHR and Flotsam and Jetsam create ongoing effects once resolved. They may be actions, in the true sense of the word, but they are reversible the moment the card is cancelled or removed from play. Bane of the Ithil Stone doesn't need to get activated each turn, and neither should Flotsam and Jetsam.

[Bandobras Took]

The point is that ICE unequivocally states here that effects are declared and can be responded to. This makes a hash out of timing rules. If any effect can be responded to, I'm afraid that's it.

[Alter Tuk]

Two requests:

1) Can you give at short summary of this discussion at some time? For non-experts its hard to follow and not anyone likes to read through all of this. Thanks.

2) Whats the "official" interpretation at the moment? How should this card be handeled at official tournaments right now?

[Bandobras Took]

Current official interpretation is that you can respond to movement through the listed areas because this causes a change of state and therefore is a passive condition. This allows you to play any and all of the cards that In The Heart of His Realm is supposed to prevent. A company that is staying in the listed areas cannot respond because there is no change in their ability to play such cards.

A short summary of this discussion is as follows:

ICE never bothered to really define an action, so we're all just guessing.

[Jambo]

Until someone takes the initiative and grabs this game's ambiguous rules and rulings by the baws, it'll continue to frustrate and alienate players.

[Bandobras Took]

I agree, but until there is a working and active mechanism to rewrite the rules, there's little to be done. Optional rules remain in the hands of tournament organizers, so far as I know.

[Konrad Klar]

The point is that ICE unequivocally states here that effects are declared and can be responded to. This makes a hash out of timing rules. If any effect can be responded to, I'm afraid that's it.

Effects that are played during the organization phase, and depend on the site or site path of a moving company, create an effect which is not declared until the new site is revealed. If the site or site path is not of the appropriate type when the effect resolves, the resource has no effect. If the company has multiple movement/hazard phases on the same turn, the card applies separately to each phase, having an effect only if the correct conditions are met.

Meaning of this rule is that dependency between new site/ site path of company and effect is checked only at the start of M/H phase. So if Secret Passage was played in org. phase you cannot change playability of creatures keyed to the site later by changing R&L to SH or BH/SH to R&L..
It what happens at the start of M/H phase is equivalent of declaring short-event that makes effects identical to the Secret Passage (except "playable in organization phase"). In other words part of resolution of Secret Passage is deferred and moved at the start of M/H phase.

An as Jambo said: that's for effects that are played during the organization phase. Only.
Special case is not a general rule, by definition. Similarly like effect of tapping in support to cc, that resolves at resolution of cc (not after resolution of actions declared later, and before resolution of actions declared earlier - that is a general rule).

P.S.
Not sure whether it will help much but anyway - my proposal of practical definition of action:
Activity in play that lasts only between its declaration and its resolution or that occurs immediately and lasts only in that moment.

[Bandobras Took]

create an effect which is not declared until the new site is revealed

They state here that effects can be declared.

I like your definition of action. My ideal would be even simpler -- if you as a player must physically do something (roll dice, move card, look through play deck) it is an action; otherwise, it is not.

[Bandobras Took]

Resurrecting another old topic -- maybe I should change my name and avatar to the Necromancer.

My question is non-moving company at a site that is normally in a shadow-land.
In the Heart of his Realm is in play at the start of the m/h phase.
they want to marvel's told In the Heart of his Realm, I respond with
Awaken the Earth's fire, to turn said shadowland into dark domain...
So since i'm targetting the site's sitepath with Awaken Earth's fire,
because there is no company site path, they are now considered to be
at a site in a dark domain, sages lose sage skill, and marvel's told
fizzles. right?

*** Correct.

Here the NetRep does not interpret the change from being able to use MT to not being able to as an action created as a Passive Condition, but rather a continuing effect of the card.