A Few For the Pukel Creatures

Where the Virtual Boyz plan their latest capers
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Bandobras Took
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Pallando the Soul-Keeper:

Unique. Any minion character that would normally be eliminated or discarded by a successful strike from a Pukel-Creature is instead taken Prisoner with this card as a hazard host at the White Towers. Rescue Attack: Maia - 2 strikes at 13 prowess. When you would otherwise be required to discard this card, you may discard a Pukel-Creature from your hand instead.

No Way Forward:

If any Pukel-Creature strike succeeds, the defending character may do nothing during the site phase.

Aware Of Their Ways:

Permanent Event. All Hero and Balrog Dark-Holds gain an additional automatic attack: Pukel-Creature: 3 strikes at 9 prowess.

Imprisoned And Mocked:
One strike of a Pukel-Creature attack attempts to take a hero character prisoner at a shadow-hold, dark-hold, or the Pukel-deeps. Rescue attacks (2): Pukel-Creature: 3 strikes at 8 prowess, 2 strikes at 9 prowess.

Wanted to see some hazards that didn't just go for prowess boosts.
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Nerdmeetsyou
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why should i take a character imprisoned that was eliminated anyway???
there is no sense in it...
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Thorsten the Traveller
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it's not easy to connect pukel-creatures thematically I suppose, can you explain why you choose these cards? Personally I'm not sure even what puckel-creatures are, I suppose they're mainly totems that have powers that scare/detain people. So I like the prisoner/roadblock ideas for them.

That being said, I suppose for most people the annoying fact is that
a) there are not enough of them, only 2x3=6 creatures
b) they have very low keyability, no regions. but maybe that is thematically justified.
c) silent watcher, and even pukel-men do not get through.
So is it really any use to design roadblock/capture hazards if these points are not met, even if they have pretty strong effect? Doesn't have to be by boosters, can also increase keyability and recycling, play creature as auto so it doesn't get killed, maybe combine them with other creatures (I'd say undead? like any pukel may be played following Chill Douser?). Maybe key to any under-deeps? etc.

Pallando: unique and killable, that's a bummer. Also ability very good, you can dragg someone over the map to a pretty monstrous rescue attack, so would be nice if it had some thematic backup to justify it. If anyone, I'd suppose Saruman is more apparent choice? (servant of Aule, in the pukel region present, Isengard more central, of course his hazard is better)
Imprisoned: balrog rare. pretty stiff rescue attacks Bandobras!
Aware: pretty tough, but maybe not too much.

How about adding more theme stuff, like attack is cancelled if opponent has Phial?
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
Jambo
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I think playing on the Pukel Creatures ability to scare or render characters useless is good. I'm not overly convinced on Pukel Creatures capturing people, since generally they were fairly inanimate.

The roadblock one above wouldn't work anyway, since a successful strike will already prevent a character from doing anything during a site phase because the character will be wounded.

Did you ever see the virtual version I'd done for Silent Watcher in the Showcase forum? Speaking of which shouldn't this be in the Showcase?
marcos
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i like the ideas, keep it going! :)
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Bandobras Took
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Jambo wrote:The roadblock one above wouldn't work anyway, since a successful strike will already prevent a character from doing anything during a site phase because the character will be wounded.
Detainment attacks vs. minion? Though that is a bit limited. How about adding "If a Pukel-creature has been keyed to a site this turn, the automatic attacks at that site may not be canceled."
BoderHamster wrote:why should i take a character imprisoned that was eliminated anyway??? there is no sense in it...
Characters taken prisoner give negative MPs. This can often force a company to go out of their way to rescue said character. A dead character, strangely enough is sometimes preferable.

Overall, with the Prisoner-taking cards:

I thought Pallando was a good choice because the idea of silent observers seems like a Mandos sort of thing. As far as Imprisoned and Mocked, it refers more to the Silent Watchers acting as sentinels and giving out loud warnings whenever someone tried to pass, thus leading to a person's imprisonment. And I've never even tried to use the normal Imprisoned and Mocked, since I'm afraid of running out of time before finishing the math. :)

On a final note, I tend to propose individual cards in the Virtual Forum, but when dealing with an overall theme or set of cards, I tend to stick it here because the discussion will be more on how such cards act as a whole and whether the overall concept is valid for Virtual Cards. If this is amiss, let me know.
marcos
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Bandobras Took wrote:Pallando the Soul-Keeper:

Unique. Any minion character that would normally be eliminated or discarded by a successful strike from a Pukel-Creature is instead taken Prisoner with this card as a hazard host at the White Towers. Rescue Attack: Maia - 2 strikes at 13 prowess. When you would otherwise be required to discard this card, you may discard a Pukel-Creature from your hand instead.

No Way Forward:

If any Pukel-Creature strike succeeds, the defending character may do nothing during the site phase.

Aware Of Their Ways:

Permanent Event. All Hero and Balrog Dark-Holds gain an additional automatic attack: Pukel-Creature: 3 strikes at 9 prowess.

Imprisoned And Mocked:
One strike of a Pukel-Creature attack attempts to take a hero character prisoner at a shadow-hold, dark-hold, or the Pukel-deeps. Rescue attacks (2): Pukel-Creature: 3 strikes at 8 prowess, 2 strikes at 9 prowess.

Wanted to see some hazards that didn't just go for prowess boosts.
Re Pallando: like the idea, but not much tematic though... I think i agree with thorsten about the saruman thing...
Re No way forward: I like it, but is it a permanent, short or long event?
Re Aware of their ways: i like it
Re imprisoned and mocked: don't really know what to say about this one...

on the other hand, as thorsten pointed out, there are not much pukel-creature cards so i guess this strategy needs a recycler more than anyone else. About keyability, pukel men are considerably playable while silent watcher is only highly playable vs minion but not that much vs hero, so this strat will prolly need a keyability improvement too... Can we work a bit with that?
what do you think?
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Nerdmeetsyou
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I thought about including the enhancement in some other hazard strategy....
so you could play them as an additional to another hazard strategy...

for excample there is this kind of wolf that pushes orcs played after him... maybe we can do something similar....

so that pückel cratures can be played as an additon to somthing else....
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Thorsten the Traveller
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okay, imho here's how I see pukel-creatures.

1) they are totems, i.e. objects that have received some power or spirit.
2) even though they are animated, they don't move, they belong to sites. In Unfinished Tales, if I recall correctly, Tolkien mentions stories that pukel creatures have actively protected Wose families. But as malevolent or as guardian beings protecting a place they are rather static.
3) their power is to resist (scare, drive insane) people. (notwithstanding unfinished tales)
4) pukel creatures mentioned are aligned with both forces of good and evil. Even the Argonath could, in a fashion, be a pukel-creature, since minions would not dare come near the place. However I'd say they are more creatures of the twilight and the dark.

this amounts to, I would say:
a) pukel creatures must focus on being keyed to sites, i.e. ruins/shadow/darkholds
b) pukel-creature attacks may function as automatics
c) pukel creatures' effects is detainment/roadblock or taking prisoner. Taking prisoner must be at the site where the pukel creature or auto is present.
d) Wose characters can have a certain influence on pukel creatures, as well as perhaps ringwraiths. (ringwraith was alarmed by Silent Watcher, ringwraith is a powerful spirit, that can draw and subject other spirits)

in combination with the position of pukel creatures at the moment, I would say:
I) there are only few creature cards, and keyability is very limited - which imo is justified according to a) - hence we should focus on recycling, creating non creature attacks and aligning pukel with other creatures.
II) we need therefore: a recycler, a keyability improver/aligner, a resource to either deal with pukel or interplay with the hazard, secondary effect cards like roadblock/prisoner, an auto-attack. These can of course be combined.
III) would suggest aligning pukel with undead. First it seems thematically least far fetched, haunted places might contain animated totems, undeads might choose to inhabit a totem. Second it gives the option to extend pukel to many ruins, since undead abound there. Giants maybe? hmm giants are not keyed to sites.

some proposals:

Peril Returned V: permanent-event
Any pukel-creature may be keyed to under-deeps sites and sites with an undead automatic attack. Aditionally, any pukel creature may be played this turn after a company has faced Chill Douser. Unabated in Malice may be played on pukel-creature attacks, but does count against the hazard limit.

Silent Watcher V: creature,shadow/darkhold 9 prowess
(-3 prowess versus minion companies). Each non wizard non ringwraith character in the company faces one strike. Character does not use his prowess but his mind against this strike. Tapping gives +2 against the strike. Any succesful strike does not wound the character, but takes him prisoner at the site Silent Watcher is keyed to (discard any followers/allies). Keep this card with the character. Rescue attack: this card's attack.

Borrowed a bit from Jambo who mentioned this ages ago. Normal Silent Watcher is rather toast without booster. If we play without booster, creature can use improvement. This can also be useful to tap out Orc Brawlers squatting in Mordor.

Drughu V: permanent-event (1MP)
Playable on a character with a bonus against (a) Wose faction(s). Character may tap to cancel a pukel-creature attack. If character is at the same ruins/shadow/darkhold as an opponent's company, you may tap this card at the end of opponent's organisation phase to play Pukel-men from your discard pile: the attack is detainment, but if any strike is succesful, the company may not move this turn. Remove creature from the game if no strikes are succesful. This card does not untap. If tapped this card is worth 1 MP. Cannot be duplicated on a character. This card may be played as a minion resource.

This can be useful if you want your opponent to stick around for a turn, perhaps you can initiate another battle or influence attempt. Anyway it will probably tap two guys or use a canceller, so that can be exploited during mhphase. Also it gives a boost to using Wose characters - who are not called Wose unfortunately, hence the construction with the faction, can also use home site for it, but who knows there might be a character without a wose homesite, or homesite Worthy Hills.
"Wild men can help, or wild men can make life difficult for you." Creature could be expanded also to Silent Watcher, but since I thought to change that one it would be too much for this attack. Can of course also be just an attack if that is more apropiate, but I thought to compensate for quite good ability, hence creature may be removed from game.

Saruman the Wise V: creature permanent-event
Unique. Maia. 3@12 etc.
At the end of each turn, each player may take take to hand from discard pile one of the following cards: Pukel-men, Silent Watcher, Cruel Caradhras, Eyes of the Shadow.

Along the line of Radagast V. Not sure about the last ones, could also be a very cool ability for a Saruman resource-hazard interplay card.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
marcos
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nice suggestions i like them! i won't go with cruel caradhras for Saruman, leave that for earth attacks ;) rest is ok imho
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