we might want to start thinking on wich cards are going to probably be included in set 2, thoughts?
Can anybody post a list of the suggestions so far made?
moving forwards
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Thorsten the Traveller
- Ex Council Chairman
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You think that time has arrived indeed? I'd say first let set 1 really get a hold of people, hopefully, at worlds. I have no idea what the awareness is within the community so far of virtuals...also you're still playtesting.
btw I hope planning at worlds is better than at Lure, because they scheduled Virtuals during coolplay tourney, if there's one thing I didn't want to miss...
on the other hand, the list of (more or less) serious ideas is already growing long indeed, soon it will be difficult to track them all down.
btw I hope planning at worlds is better than at Lure, because they scheduled Virtuals during coolplay tourney, if there's one thing I didn't want to miss...
on the other hand, the list of (more or less) serious ideas is already growing long indeed, soon it will be difficult to track them all down.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
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Bandobras Took
- Rules Wizard
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This might be self-pumping, but I'd like to see the Fallen Saruman cards make it into set two. I'd also like to see some good non-Balrog minion Quest cards.
We can start a new thread, or rename this thread, and call it "Thinking Ahead to Virtual Set #2."
I want to stress that I hope our efforts will be on finalizing this current set. However, it seems our community of players has a lot of imagination and time on their hands, given the dozens of V-cards that are being suggested on the Showcase forum. So I understand if you guys feel inspired to start thinking of other cool cards, too. (Heck, I'm working on a dozen secret ones myself!)
--Frodo
I want to stress that I hope our efforts will be on finalizing this current set. However, it seems our community of players has a lot of imagination and time on their hands, given the dozens of V-cards that are being suggested on the Showcase forum. So I understand if you guys feel inspired to start thinking of other cool cards, too. (Heck, I'm working on a dozen secret ones myself!)
--Frodo
New Game Strategies, Weaknesses, or Abilities I’d Like to See Virtualized
Two new 1-mind hero characters that are NOT sages.
More interplay between hazards and resources. For example, “If you have Orc companies at X, Y, and Z sites, all Orc hazards are <insert cool ability>.” But ideally I’d like something much more imaginative than this, such as factions and characters and maybe even an item in play at certain sites. Basically, it would be wonderful if there were cards that used more of a positional strategy for the MECCG game.
Perhaps other cards to punish squatters, especially FWs, if Eye of Sauron doesn’t pan out. But what would be even better is if there were simply more cards to REWARD MOVING COMPANIES.
Cards that require you to NOT have Nazgul permanent events in play to give you their cool ability (like Ent or Free-people enhancers).
Cards that requires you to NOT have A Short Rest in play to give you their cool ability.
A card(s), similar to Alert the Folk but more elaborate, that tries to duplicate the storyline of "The Hobbit." It would make the storyline easy to follow by rewarding for you getting certain cards at the right moment, etc.
Balrog: Cards that encourage Balrog to do anything other than what Balrog does now. Consider all the cool sites Balrog has that he never goes to! What are the stumbling blocks to making them part of a viable deck? What is the storyline? (Is he trying to communicate with the spirit of Morgoth?)
Balrog: Cards that make his Out He Sprang and Dwarf-hold take over strategies more viable.
Frodo
Two new 1-mind hero characters that are NOT sages.
More interplay between hazards and resources. For example, “If you have Orc companies at X, Y, and Z sites, all Orc hazards are <insert cool ability>.” But ideally I’d like something much more imaginative than this, such as factions and characters and maybe even an item in play at certain sites. Basically, it would be wonderful if there were cards that used more of a positional strategy for the MECCG game.
Perhaps other cards to punish squatters, especially FWs, if Eye of Sauron doesn’t pan out. But what would be even better is if there were simply more cards to REWARD MOVING COMPANIES.
Cards that require you to NOT have Nazgul permanent events in play to give you their cool ability (like Ent or Free-people enhancers).
Cards that requires you to NOT have A Short Rest in play to give you their cool ability.
A card(s), similar to Alert the Folk but more elaborate, that tries to duplicate the storyline of "The Hobbit." It would make the storyline easy to follow by rewarding for you getting certain cards at the right moment, etc.
Balrog: Cards that encourage Balrog to do anything other than what Balrog does now. Consider all the cool sites Balrog has that he never goes to! What are the stumbling blocks to making them part of a viable deck? What is the storyline? (Is he trying to communicate with the spirit of Morgoth?)
Balrog: Cards that make his Out He Sprang and Dwarf-hold take over strategies more viable.
Frodo
Balrog decks utilising Strangling Coils or Flame of Udun already work ok. I've seen them in action and they've done pretty well. I even have a Flame of Udun one myself. The issue is more that Great Shadow is easier, stronger, and less risky.
It's easier because:
You're Balrog stays put in a haven and havens are secure
You can net two of your required MP sources right from your haven (3 faction and 2 ally)
Characters are easier to play when your avatar is at home
It's stronger because:
You get more GI and GI = more character points
You get larger companies
Great Shadow is the ultimate card
It's less risky because:
You're not moving your Balrog (no risk of -5 MPs)
Helping the active strats brings with it the risk of making them too easy and I think they're fine as they are. Even if you did so, I don't think people will really change from using Great Shadow. Eye of Sauron was one of ther best virtual cards. You're not really getting to see the benefits of it because everyone is trying out the new active strats. Someone needs to try it out versus a squatting avatar.
Maybe one way we could help the active strats is a way of making characters playable at havens when your avatar is in play and away from a haven. This to me is always one of the defining advantages of a squatting avatar.
It's easier because:
You're Balrog stays put in a haven and havens are secure
You can net two of your required MP sources right from your haven (3 faction and 2 ally)
Characters are easier to play when your avatar is at home
It's stronger because:
You get more GI and GI = more character points
You get larger companies
Great Shadow is the ultimate card
It's less risky because:
You're not moving your Balrog (no risk of -5 MPs)
Helping the active strats brings with it the risk of making them too easy and I think they're fine as they are. Even if you did so, I don't think people will really change from using Great Shadow. Eye of Sauron was one of ther best virtual cards. You're not really getting to see the benefits of it because everyone is trying out the new active strats. Someone needs to try it out versus a squatting avatar.
Maybe one way we could help the active strats is a way of making characters playable at havens when your avatar is in play and away from a haven. This to me is always one of the defining advantages of a squatting avatar.
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Thorsten the Traveller
- Ex Council Chairman
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- Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:44 pm
- Location: Tilburg, Netherlands
Frodo wrote:
I gotta say Frodo, most of your ideas always generate alot of discussion, so just throw it in, don't brood too much!
I don't consider squatting FW to be that good actually, yes for a few decktypes, and you've got to consider the options for active FW weighing them against the negatives. Also, FW are more stationary in thematic nature I think. So, not sure if specific punishment is in order. Nevertheless, it's always good to devise rewarding active strategies.
When it comes to Balrog I share Jambo's analysis, Balrog is overall very good, Lord and Usurper won Dutch nationals 2004 (owing abit also to the fact that everybody had tired of Balrog so he was the only one playing it). Great Shadow is the icing that brings it over the top. So it would be better to tone that down than pump Balrog up. Nevertheless, I would like to see a Pass the Doors for Balrog indeed, or Tower Raided Cirith Ungol, because the Balrog sites are cool. A maia duel between Balrog and RW would also be cool.
Playing chars at haven we already do for the Lords with Vastors cards, it works well. But, then there is a race connection - Elf Lord from home? can still play elves at haven. Maybe a permanent chance-meeting (org phase) using free GI, with a roll requirement or something could also be a solution, since the problem is more getting characters to join the wizard, then just getting them in play. Or playing chars at home site under GI if you have a guy there not necessarily wizard or with DI.
Anyway, best keep this thread for general discussion on set two and directions then and make new thread for list of specific proposals/ideas?
Keep it safe, keep it secret?(Heck, I'm working on a dozen secret ones myself!)
I gotta say Frodo, most of your ideas always generate alot of discussion, so just throw it in, don't brood too much!Here here! we can do that!More interplay between hazards and resources. (-) Basically, it would be wonderful if there were cards that used more of a positional strategy for the MECCG game
I don't consider squatting FW to be that good actually, yes for a few decktypes, and you've got to consider the options for active FW weighing them against the negatives. Also, FW are more stationary in thematic nature I think. So, not sure if specific punishment is in order. Nevertheless, it's always good to devise rewarding active strategies.
When it comes to Balrog I share Jambo's analysis, Balrog is overall very good, Lord and Usurper won Dutch nationals 2004 (owing abit also to the fact that everybody had tired of Balrog so he was the only one playing it). Great Shadow is the icing that brings it over the top. So it would be better to tone that down than pump Balrog up. Nevertheless, I would like to see a Pass the Doors for Balrog indeed, or Tower Raided Cirith Ungol, because the Balrog sites are cool. A maia duel between Balrog and RW would also be cool.
Playing chars at haven we already do for the Lords with Vastors cards, it works well. But, then there is a race connection - Elf Lord from home? can still play elves at haven. Maybe a permanent chance-meeting (org phase) using free GI, with a roll requirement or something could also be a solution, since the problem is more getting characters to join the wizard, then just getting them in play. Or playing chars at home site under GI if you have a guy there not necessarily wizard or with DI.
Anyway, best keep this thread for general discussion on set two and directions then and make new thread for list of specific proposals/ideas?
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
agreeAnyway, best keep this thread for general discussion on set two and directions then and make new thread for list of specific proposals/ideas?
I already have a moving Radagast deck and you know it JoePerhaps other cards to punish squatters, especially FWs, if Eye of Sauron doesn’t pan out. But what would be even better is if there were simply more cards to REWARD MOVING COMPANIES.
but yes, i think we should encourage moving FWs a bit more
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Bandobras Took
- Rules Wizard
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I would suggest, instead, that characters may be brought into play at your Avatar's home site even if your avatar is not there, rather than a haven. A bit more thematic and even a nice boost for Hero Gandalf.Jambo wrote:Maybe one way we could help the active strats is a way of making characters playable at havens when your avatar is in play and away from a haven.
Thorsten,
That's exactly what I was meaning. For example:
Back to the Fray V:
Resource permanent-event
During your organization phase you may bring characters into play under general or direct influence at your avatar's homesite, even if your avatar is in play and not at the same site. Bringing a character into play in this manner does count against the one character per turn limit.
Likewise one would need a hero version, e.g. All the Bells Ringing.
Edit: Now takes into account Ben's cool idea.
That's exactly what I was meaning. For example:
Back to the Fray V:
Resource permanent-event
During your organization phase you may bring characters into play under general or direct influence at your avatar's homesite, even if your avatar is in play and not at the same site. Bringing a character into play in this manner does count against the one character per turn limit.
Likewise one would need a hero version, e.g. All the Bells Ringing.
Edit: Now takes into account Ben's cool idea.
what i'd like to see in set 2:
- giants + earth attacks
- fix fallen saruman
- avatarless balrog (fix OttS)
- swag + thing stolen
and there are some other nice single suggestions that i like:
- king under the mountain (map to mithril)
- the mouth
- fair travel in wilderness
- bridge
- rogrog/ gothmog
- blind to all else
best!
Marcos
- giants + earth attacks
- fix fallen saruman
- avatarless balrog (fix OttS)
- swag + thing stolen
and there are some other nice single suggestions that i like:
- king under the mountain (map to mithril)
- the mouth
- fair travel in wilderness
- bridge
- rogrog/ gothmog
- blind to all else
best!
Marcos
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Thorsten the Traveller
- Ex Council Chairman
- Posts: 1764
- Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:44 pm
- Location: Tilburg, Netherlands
things I'd like to see for set two:
-improving/diversifying ringplay
-improving fallen Saruman
-avatarless Balrog plus options attached (missions for both Balrog and warlord)
-complete the AP strategy
-more direct confrontation strategies (especially between minions)
-faction battles
-hazard-resource interplay, especially if combined with a mission, preferably one that you can start the game with and that increases in power during the game
okay, didn't say it would be easy.
-improving/diversifying ringplay
-improving fallen Saruman
-avatarless Balrog plus options attached (missions for both Balrog and warlord)
-complete the AP strategy
-more direct confrontation strategies (especially between minions)
-faction battles
-hazard-resource interplay, especially if combined with a mission, preferably one that you can start the game with and that increases in power during the game
okay, didn't say it would be easy.Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
As general concepts go, my preference would be for :
Working with Fallen Saruman
Improving Rings
Other than those two, I still think we should be focusing on clever ways to enable disused strategies or unused cards, or dumbing down over-used cards. After all, to make the former work, the latter have to become less appealing. Read River as the perfect example.
The Earth attack cards would rank highly here. Things like Reach of Ulmo, Drums, and other cool cards too.
I'm less keen on the avatar-less Balrog since I believe that should remain the big weakness of playing minion Balrog. (although I did like the idea of two Balrogs!)
Working with Fallen Saruman
Improving Rings
Other than those two, I still think we should be focusing on clever ways to enable disused strategies or unused cards, or dumbing down over-used cards. After all, to make the former work, the latter have to become less appealing. Read River as the perfect example.
The Earth attack cards would rank highly here. Things like Reach of Ulmo, Drums, and other cool cards too.
I'm less keen on the avatar-less Balrog since I believe that should remain the big weakness of playing minion Balrog. (although I did like the idea of two Balrogs!
)What a great discussion! It's wonderful to see where people's heads are pointing.
Good points about Balrog, that if we can simply tone down the most overplayed strats, then some of his other strats will become more used. Yes, I see nothing wrong with a MINION card, at least, that allows play of characters at avatar's homesite. This would make Balrog players consider actually moving the Balrog.
Balin, your Map to Mithril card is lovely! I would suggest saying "Any under-deeps site" rather than just "the under-gates" however. This gives them more options and reflects the idea of them "tunneling around."
It's funny, when Marcos said Giant and Earth attacks, I suddenly saw them as related. Perhaps Awaken the Earth's Fire could be a Giant enhancer. It would be neat if Giants did something really bizarre and different to reflect their "Giant" status, like taking up two against the HL or something.
Frodo
Good points about Balrog, that if we can simply tone down the most overplayed strats, then some of his other strats will become more used. Yes, I see nothing wrong with a MINION card, at least, that allows play of characters at avatar's homesite. This would make Balrog players consider actually moving the Balrog.
Balin, your Map to Mithril card is lovely! I would suggest saying "Any under-deeps site" rather than just "the under-gates" however. This gives them more options and reflects the idea of them "tunneling around."
It's funny, when Marcos said Giant and Earth attacks, I suddenly saw them as related. Perhaps Awaken the Earth's Fire could be a Giant enhancer. It would be neat if Giants did something really bizarre and different to reflect their "Giant" status, like taking up two against the HL or something.
Frodo