Council of Elrond

I am changing the V-cards right now for a new set version update, so I need input on this!

Brian pointed out an interesting problem with this card: if your Balrog opponent tries to play Baduila as well, you are both screwed until one of you draws the card. This could be likely in a V-game especially. Also, a non-Balrog opponent could try to play Baduila just to screw you over.

I think the solution is to have the card work on two characters, not just Baduila. It should be a high-mind man character, and thus the only options are (since the Mouth is too anti-thematic):

1) Elerina
2) Grimburgoth

Note that this makes magic now possible (though it's unlikely the player will dedicate much magic to a deck where only 1 character can use it). The decision should be made on whichever option does not give the Balrog player a larger advantage over using Baduila instead (in other words, the two chars choices should be equally powerful, even if they suggest different strategies).

Frodo

I'd personally go with Elerina, as this gives you a sage/diplomat, skills that are in short supply for the Balrog. Warrior/Rangers are a dime a dozen.

P.S. And it would explain where the Balrog's getting all those half-orcs from.

Bandobras,

EWWWWWWWW....!

That is one of the nastiest things about middle-earth i've ever heard someone say...!

Of course, the fact that Elerina might be so useful could be a reason to NOT go with her.

Frodo

I am against allowing anyone other than Baduila with this card. Elerina would simply be too powerful. Think of the combination of Deeper Shadow with Cloaked by Darkness! -6 HL for 3 corruption checks in the course of a deck exhaustion!

Fori the Beardless?

Would the putative non-orc/troll have to be a minion agent?

Would someone like Pon Opar be a worthy substitute?

Well it would have to be someone with 8 or 9 mind, in order to substantially affect the Balrog's starting company and make them give up something (more control of characters) for the man faction bonus. Since I agree with Zara's assessment of Elerina (i'd forgotten about Cloaked), that would leave only one other character, Grimburgoth, but I have a feel sorcery would be similarly too strong.

Perhaps we'll have to settle for just Baduila, then. There is still some hope for the player who doesn't get him: the way open to the summons was worded allows ANY balrog player to play man factions as long as they're at the same site as any player's baduila.

Frodo

The Grim wouldnt be a good character cause of all the nastyness with Tormented Earth. Why add even more cancel power to the Hogs arsenal.

I would think Anarin might be an option, as his homesite is in Moria, and he has no magical options. The only drawback is that he is an Elf, but he has nice DI for faction influence, and he has the nice skills of a Diplomat... a rare treat for the hogs arsenal.

zarathustra wrote:I am against allowing anyone other than Baduila with this card. Elerina would simply be too powerful. Think of the combination of Deeper Shadow with Cloaked by Darkness! -6 HL for 3 corruption checks in the course of a deck exhaustion!

Agreed!

Regarding Anarin, whilst his homesite makes sense, he is an elf and it's hard enough to imagine elf minions in the first place let alone one working for the Balrog.

I'd just go with Baduila. Being able to use Baduila as a character is already a powerful option given that it will quite often result in a useless agent hazard in your opponent's hand.

Frodo wrote: Perhaps we'll have to settle for just Baduila, then. There is still some hope for the player who doesn't get him: the way open to the summons was worded allows ANY balrog player to play man factions as long as they're at the same site as any player's baduila.

They have to pray they fail the influence check? Because I believe the card only allows you to play them, not influence them away?

They have to pray they fail the influence check? Because I believe the card only allows you to play them, not influence them away?

Or you can pray that they are simply prevented from entering the site for a turn, during which you run over.

Actually, the card says "Such factions can only be influenced by a character at Baduila's site." Influenced, not played. So I guess you can both play them and influence them away.

It's almost like Mark had thought this all out, before he worded the card!

Frodo

Not to resurrect a dead thread, but . . . well . . . I'm resurrecting a dead thread.

The bizarre thought just struck me: what if we allow Fram to be played as a starting Minion character by the Balrog? I confess I have no overwhelming emotional attachment to Fram being a good guy, and his prowess bonus vs. Dragons might be interesting in a Dragon-Rousing Balrog deck.

or maybe Beorn since ICE made minion Beornings?
I guess that will be too unthemathic...

If i have to choose a minion man character i think i'd go with Dasakun, ohter way, i would choose Anarin and state in OttS that he can be in same company as orc/trolls...