Council of Elrond

Khamul the Easterling wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:39 pm

Fallen-wizards may not play characters, i. e. bring into play a character under general or direct influence, with more than five mind, but if they have one in play the character is not discarded. Fallen-wizards can have a character with more than five mind, they just can't start with one or play one. There are no other restrictions regarding such characters.

From a (remote) concern that some might argue that this could imply that 6-mind Orcs could be in the same non-Haven company as Hobbits, etc.

Fallen-wizards may not play characters, i. e. bring into play a character under general or direct influence, with more than five mind, but if they have one in play the character is not discarded. Fallen-wizards can have a character with more than five mind, they just can't start with one or play one. There are no other restrictions on characters based on their mind.

Hi, I do not see the point." There are no other restrictions on characters based on their mind." This does not say anything about company restrictions that still have to be fulfilled. Only mind restrictions are deactivated once the character is in play. Cheers Heiner

Smaug wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:05 am Hi, I do not see the point." There are no other restrictions on characters based on their mind." This does not say anything about company restrictions that still have to be fulfilled. Only mind restrictions are deactivated once the character is in play. Cheers Heiner

Exactly. This phrase is only clarifying the mind-related aspects. Any other restrictions, like from other cards' effects, are not covered by this clarification.

one proposed change wrote:There are no other restrictions on characters based on their mind.

other proposed change wrote:Fallen-wizard restrictions regarding characters based on their mind attribute are only from the following

This phrasing of these statements is so incongruous with the rules. Is it a description of other rules? Or a declaration that invalidates other rules? There are plenty of restrictions and rules "on characters" (generally referring to mechanics and actions of and on characters) for FW based on mind. Like all of the the normal METW rules on mind still apply which are also restrictions on fallen-wizards.

I think its better to just remove the offending Rule in the MEWH insert. Here is the cause of the confusion:

Characters – You may use both hero and minion characters. However, you may only use a character if his mind attribute is 5 or less. All of your non-Orc/-Troll characters are considered to be hero characters. You may only use up to two of each non-unique character.

What does "use" mean? The CRF doesn't help us. And almost seems to imply that FW characters become lumps as discussed elsewhere.

CRF Rulings by Term - Fallen-wizard wrote:

• Fallen-wizards may not play characters with more than five mind, but if they have one in play the character is not discarded.
• Fallen-wizards can have a character with more than five mind, they just can't start with one or play one.

But from the Digests, we can see that "use" should be ignored. So I agree with the originally proposed changes but would also change the offending use of "use."

the Jabberwock wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:38 am I propose the following rules erratum:

CRF - Fallen-wizard wrote: Fallen-wizards may not play characters with more than five mind, but if they have one in play the character is not discarded.
Fallen-wizards can have and use a character with more than five mind, they just can't start with one or play one.

(changes in bold)

Additional proposed change to MEWH rules wrote:Characters – You may use both hero and minion characters. However, you may only use play a character if his mind attribute is 5 or less. All of your non-Orc/-Troll characters are considered to be hero characters. You may only use up to two of each non-unique character.

The MEWH rules include may instances of "use" that are a little unclear. As you can see in the line about non-unique characters here (presumably MEWH meant "include in your play deck and sideboard"). But, I think it's better to just focus on the 5-mind issue for now.