raising some funds for the COE

[thorondor]

during worlds i had some time to talk a few things with mark. one of the topics was: it would be nice to have some fund at the COE.

there are a few related questions:
1. WHY???
2. how to raise funds?
3. who decides what to do with it?
4. who administers the money?

ad1)
we could start to produce our own little prize sortiment. for example pins with avatars. tshirts. caps...
legality might be a problem (not with pins, since we use existing cards anyway).
but we may even be offensive and tell Tolkien Enterprise what we are planning to do. they probably won´t mind this at all (of course we won´t be able to run a john howe-gandalf tshirt mass production!)

of course it would be possible for organizers of worlds or other big events to care for such things. still much money can be saved, when for example the COE orders things in big numbers and distributes them all over the world.

ad2)
two ideas:
- take one euro/dollar from every player, who takes part in a COE sanctioned tourney or event. of course this has to be included in the fee before.
- donations. and asking all those, who will be registered players at the COE homepage for 1 euro/dollar per year.

ad3)
that´s the COE´s job. the members are changing, still the COE will always act as one body.

ad4)
it should be someone outside the COE, so forces are divided (since the COE is supposed to use the money). it should be someone who is known by as many players as possible. it should be someone who is absolutely trustworthy beyond all doubts. it should be someone äh, well, like ... chris cable maybe??

mark is still on holidays, so i hope i didn´t forget too much of what we have been talking about.
now what do you think about all of this???

[jhunholz]

I like the idea, but I would push more for donations than for charging a fee to users who want to be listed in the directory. If we do that, I fear some will rather not be listed than pay the fee. And that goes against our desire to have a comprehensive list of MECCG players and traders.

In addition to money, we should allow for/request donations of prize material. I think some would probably rather donate prizes that they have and we could build up some of it that way as well.

There's my 2 cents.

[zarathustra]

I can't think of anything else to add. Thanks for posting this already, Wolfgang.

What do others think?

[thorondor]

what do you think:

should we try and contact Tolkien Enterprises (TE) and ask them, if it´s okay to produce some things for prizes?
my experiences with the austrian tolkien society told me, that they are quite friendly, when you show them your will to cooperate. on the other hand i heard, that they became really nasty, when they found out, that someone used trademarked tolkien stuff without their permission.

there are so many cool things we could produce, such as:
- cards translated into quenya/sindarin and/or written in tengwar
- tshirts
- binders
- caps
- buttons (which would be legal anyway, since we are using existing cards)
- ...

TE may give us a general NO. or they tell us to buy a license. of course we can´t do anything then.
but: i wouldn´t like the COE/A to produce anything of these things i have mentioned, knowing that this is not legal. it´s part of our reponsibility as the official governing body for MECCG not to do something like this.

so, what´s the risk in contacting TE??

[zarathustra]

Wolfgang, I think you know better than the rest of us, given your association with the Austrian Tolkien Society. If you think it's better to contact TE, I have nothing to say against it.

[Frodo]

Wolfgang, I think this is a great idea. Make sure your request includes everything we might use the images for, including "promotional materials about the game."

There are SO many things we can do with these images! Stress indirectly that we are a small group, and stress directly that we are not-for-profit.

Just the t-shirt with image idea is huge. Imagine walking around a big gaming convention in American like GenCon with a shirt featuring one of the middle-earth cards on your back? THat's instant attention and publicity for anyone interested in Lord of the Rings.

Frodo

[zarathustra]

Update:

Chris Cable has agreed to be the community treasurer. I suggest someone make a motion that will (1) nominate him as such, (2) establish how and in what circumstances funds are to be collected, (3) who will have the right to request funds from him, and for what purpose.

[jhunholz]

Update:

Chris Cable has agreed to be the community treasurer.

Cool! Glad to see he's willing.

(2) establish how and in what circumstances funds are to be collected,

This is the big part of the discussion I think. The basic question is do we want this to be voluntary or mandatory? I think it would be a good idea if we make donations to the CoE voluntary, and have a few ways that people can donate: with cash at tournaments (an extra $1 fee for prize support or something like that) and online (Paypal) from our website. To encourage donating, we can maybe even offer special promotions (donate $X and receive a Middle Earth Player button, etc.). I'm not a big fan of charging an extra fee at tournaments, because players are already paying for coming to the event.

(3) who will have the right to request funds from him, and for what purpose.

If these are funds for the CoE, then I think they should only be requested from him by whoever is heading up the current project. I think the money should be used to help create promotional and prize material, or to help in anything else that the council decides. If Chris can give us quarterly updates on where money came from and how it was spent, that would be useful as well. Nothing elaborate, just a summary. Anyway, that's my thoughts.

[zarathustra]

Personally, I see nothing wrong with taking 1 dollar/euro from each player at a tournament. After all, the price of sealed product and prize support is always somewhat arbitrary: the players won't even know they paid extra....

Soliciting voluntary donations is fine, of course, but I wouldn't expect anyone actually to donate that way. And, after a short time of collecting, the CoE will be in a position to reimburse players for their donations with nice prizes! (after all, we're not just investing the money: we're using it for the community!)

How about this for access: the CoE can choose to fund a tournament organizer by a majority vote. It is then up to the organizer to use the funds or prize donations as he sees fit.

[thorondor]

i also have no problem with taking some money from tourney participants as long as the players know about it. taking 1 dollar/euro is very reasonable, and nobody wouold mind that, i guess.

of course we cannot take money at every small tourney. so we have to decide in advance, which ones would be affected. guess it´s rather easy to decide: all which are COE approved. and which ones are they?
worlds/european champiosnhips, nationals and some special international tourneys (such as Lure, Northern Cup, once Benelux Open, ???)

How about this for access: the CoE can choose to fund a tournament organizer by a majority vote. It is then up to the organizer to use the funds or prize donations as he sees fit.

would be the right way to do in my opinion. however, it would create way to much votings, and let´s face the truth: the members of the COE seems to be pretty lazy about that sometimes

so i would prefer a system, that runs automatically. for example: national councils are granted some prize and promo support, given a few conditions:
exisiting at least for one year
having organized a national championship
being a member of the COE

how much prize stuff is granted depends on how many players there are at their nationals (an average number).

organizer of big events have to request, since this will be rather individually.
for everthing else also a request is needed.
these requests are answered by a majority voting of the COE.

[zarathustra]

Does anyone have any further comment here?

If not, can someone make a motion?