Ideas for [v] Rogrog and [v] Gothmog

[Jambo]

This thread's for discussing ideas for virtualising these two brutes. Gothmog led the battle against Minas Tirith after the Witch King's demise, and Rogrog was a thorn in the flesh of many in Northern Eriador.

[Bandobras Took]

Rogrog
Unique. Permanent Event. Non-unique Troll hazards may be keyed to any Ruins & Lairs, Shadow-Holds, or Dark-Holds in Arthedain, Forochel, Rhudaur, Angmar, Gundabad, or Cardolan. Discard a non-unique Troll hazard from your hand to retrieve this card from the discard pile and place it in your hand.

Gothmog
Unique. Agent. Gothmog has 9 mind and 1 Direct Influence. +4 Direct Influence against Orcs, Trolls, and Orc or Troll factions. Non-unique Trolls may be played at Gothmog's current site. Such trolls are non-detainment against a Balrog player, and Gothmog's attack is non-detainment against a Balrog player. Home Site: Minas Morgul.

Hey, we ought to have another non-minion agent besides Lobelia and My Precious!

[Nerdmeetsyou]

rog rog should maybe give +1/+2 prowless to such played toulls...??? not that much of a good card otherwise... I think...

like the idear of Gothmog...
although I don't like agents at all...*G*
but having an agent thats good against minions seems quiet cool!!!!
we should definitly make him!

[Bandobras Took]

Trolls already have great prowess. The biggest difficulty I've had with them is keyability. The RogRog i suggested would have Olog-Warlords and Trolls from the Mountains hitting Barrow-Downs or Weathertop. That's scary.

[Nerdmeetsyou]

I already play some kind of troll deck...
it allows me nearly the same... by playing morgul night!!!
or chocking shadows....
because there is all this wilderness around!!!!

[Bandobras Took]

Some key differences:

Morgul Night/Choking are Doors-dependent -- this is not, so will not be vulnerable to Twilight/Gates.

Anything keyed to Shadow-Holds vs. Minion is detainment.

Oh, and Gothmog should change from "Creature" to "Warrior/Ranger Troll"

[marcos]

i like them both, but make gothmog an agent... that will be weird...

Rogrog is awesome, but i think that Cardolan is a bit far away from his home, i'd say only Arthedain, Forochel, Rhudaur, Angmar and Gundabad

P/B of gothmog? 8/9???

[Bandobras Took]

Cardolan was more a gameplay consideration -- if you're going Trolls, you need to be able to hit Barrow-Downs/Worthy Hills.

Gothmog might need to move his prowess down for agent attacks, yeah, but I couldn't remember his original prowess. Probably 8 or 9, though.

[marcos]

wild trolls can hit there...
and if you are moving there also william, bert and maybe tuma can hit too, of course i'm not talking about squatters...

Is Rogrog event/creature? or just perm-event?

[Bandobras Took]

Just Permanent Event. That way, use the original if you're running Unique Trolls and use the Virtual if you're running Non-Unique Trolls.

Evidently Wild Trolls can hit the Ruins & Lairs sites, but 3 Wild Trolls against a deck that spends the bulk of its time in Cardolan isn't as useful as otherwise anticipated.

[Thorsten the Traveller]

Haha, Gothmog an agent. well we'll have a bit of work on him yet, or do you want him to attack at Minas Tirith? I wonder how he would sneak into the city. Or, on top of that he could lead a party of Olog-warlords into Minas Tirith too? What, are they wearing Elven-cloaks now?

how does the mechanism on Rogrog work? He's unique, and his game-text only applies when he's in play I suppose, so how can you retrieve him? Or do you mean to say, discard non-unique troll to retrieve a non-unique troll?

[Bandobras Took]

The game text on Will Shaken applies before it's in play. Also, you can shuffle Cloaked By Shadow into the play deck even though it's not in play yet. Some card texts allow for effects even though they're not in play.

Sure, Gothmog could attack at Minas Tirith. That's what Withdrawn to Mordor etc. are for. Even Firiel can bring Undead in with New Moon. Let us not forget that Gothmog was attacking Minas Tirith in Return of the King.

[Ringbearer]

Gothmog as an agent.... might work, although I dont find him subtle enough for an agent. Agents do their work in secrecy and subterfuge. A troll is hardly subtle, and not very secret.

[Nerdmeetsyou]

maybe limit his influence attemps to minions!


maybe limit it then on non-free domain... seems resnable for me...

[Jambo]

Trolls already have great prowess. The biggest difficulty I've had with them is keyability. The RogRog i suggested would have Olog-Warlords and Trolls from the Mountains hitting Barrow-Downs or Weathertop. That's scary.

This is what I believe too. Keyability. Troll decks don't work because many are keyed to Shadow or Dark places and the support cards needed to convert existing regions into these is a drain on deck space and hazard limit.

Gothmog as an agent.... might work, although I dont find him subtle enough for an agent. Agents do their work in secrecy and subterfuge. A troll is hardly subtle, and not very secret.

I also believe this is right. Gothmog was a fearsome war leader, a Troll, and obviously completey unsubtle and unstealthy! There's no way he could be an agent.

How about focusing on the former?

We have 3 pretty neat cards which would work well with the two trolls as creature/permanent-events. Reaching Shadow (either troll), Angmar Arises (Rogrog), and the original In Darkness Bind Them (Gothmog), which all focus quite well with the two troll leaders. Is there a way for these to be linked to a permanent-event version?

For instance,

Rogrog V:
Creature/Permanent-event
Unique. Troll. One Strike. As a creature may also be keyed to blah.
As a permanent event, you may tap to take Reaching Shadow or Angmar Arises from you discard pile or sideboard to hand. This card does not untap normally during your untap phase. You may use two against a company's hazard limit to untap this card. If Angmar Arises is in play, Rogrog may attack from a permanent-event (counting against the hazard limit) following any Troll attack. If tapped Rogrog receives -1 prowess, -1 body. Discard after Rogrog attacks.