V-discussion Scroll of Isildur

[Thorsten the Traveller]

Somebody brought the changed rules intended for LoRe to our attention some time ago. (see meccg.net topic http://www.meccg.net/dforum/viewtopic.php?t=2609 or morgul rats site) I hadn't seen those yet and thought 'well hey, some of these might work out pretty well'. Especially the 'tap a sage to test a ring' ability, I had already been pondering about such a thing, because as it is, if you want to play rings you always have to choose between playing it safe but loosing a turn (Ringlore/SotF), or test in bigger quantities (the test cards). Nobody likes loosing rings to bad tests, but loosing turns and/or card slots /card management is possibly worse (try the Bree Ring Squat deck for a solution).
At the same time, I once proposed Scroll of Isildur should be sage only, since I find it strange that any nitwit can read a 3000 year old piece of parchment written in Quenya. Now, most tests are done by sage or wizard anyway so it would not be of great effect, but how about combining the LoRe rule and the SoI for a virtual card that helps ring decks?

Scroll of Isildur [V]: Unique. Tap Scroll of Isidur and a sage in the company to test a gold ring. Sage makes a corruption check. Aditionally, when a Gold Ring is tested in a company with the Scroll of Isildur, the result of the roll (or draw) is modified by +2.

It's no new game mechanism and not that big of a change, but possibly big enough. Also, this would render Gandalf's ability and the other test cards less useful, but it does give new impetus to playing rings I think, and in my perception non-One Ring decks can use some help because they are troublesome. Dwarven or Spirit Ring decks need not rely on Ringlore/SotF, certainly if combined with something like this

Test of Lore / Test of Fire [V]: Sage only, if a gold ring is tested in the company, either add or subtract one from the result of the roll (your choice). Results indicating The One Ring are ignored.

With the Scroll and this boost card a Precious Gold Ring only needs a 5 to test a Dwarven Ring (84%), Gold Ring that Sauron Fancies needs a 6 (67%) for a Dwarven Ring a Bright Gold Ring/Perfect Gold ring the same for a Spirit Ring, under normal circumstances. Also, with this boost card there's no longer the chance that you can't test either dwarven or magic ring from your Rumours of Rings. And how annoying is that!?

But mainly it's the card and turnmanagement that could be improved I think, when playing a non One Ring ring deck, hence the LoRe rule combined with the Scroll. If anyone thinks this interesting, redundant, or overpowered [ring squats everywhere], let's hear it.
If more people start playing rings, perhaps Something Else at Work can be put to some use as well (always liked that card )

And how about some Tales of Lore from participants in the Virtual Tournament at Worlds? [/url]

[Nerdmeetsyou]

maybe use the card: Ringelore (which is unplayed at the moment)
instead of the usable TEst cards for the V card....

[Thorsten the Traveller]

not sure what you mean Boder, Ringlore offers the trade-off, worse turn/cardmanagement for certainty of testing the bigger rings. If you mean make a Ringlore V: 'test a ring +1 or -1, your choice', then nobody would play the Test of Form anymore.

Apart from Boder (thanks Boder), nobody really gave thoughts to improving ring-strategy like this using the Scroll? Or was it just missed out on because of summer

I noticed both proposals could be worded somewhat better, but it's the idea that counts obviously.

[Nerdmeetsyou]

maybe ringlore could be a permanent event that can be played at an infomation site...
which grands you as long as it is in play to add or subtract one...???

like:

Ringlore (V)

Permanent Event
MP: 1
May be played at a site where infomation is playable.
Tap a sage and the site to put this card on the table.
Whenever you test a ring, you may either add or subtract one to the roll. (After the roll)

[Jambo]

I'm not convinced Scroll should or indeed needs to be virtualised. One-ring decks when properly made can be extremely strong. I take it you didn't notice Trossell's recent GCCG tournament deck which dunked each time barring one?

Anyway, I'd like to think somewhere down the line we can think of a card that can help with hero, and to a greater extent, minion ring decks. Ones that aren't One-ring based. Minions in particular have a plethora of cool ring items which rarely see the time of day.

[Thorsten the Traveller]

No, didn't see that deck on GCCG, but I've seen plenty One-ring decks in the course time. If you're out for the One, you need either plenty of luck or plenty of rolls, there's no other way around it (except Under-grottos, but then you're a bit out of the way). So most people use Wizards Test anyway. Since Scroll V only offers one roll, you'd take more of a gamble using it for the One. Even with 3 Leaf-Broaches, you still only get 4 tests with Scroll, equal to 2 Wizard's Test, and you'd need 4 sages to tap. So I don't concider this proposal to be beneficial to One-ring decks actually.

So, I'm not saying Scroll needs virtualising (though thematically it makes little sense), but this is meant for the other rings, to improve card/turnmanagement, which is the essential problem I guess with those rings. Ringlore/Secrets is just bad card management, right?

[Thorsten the Traveller]

Actually Boder that is an interesting proposal too! now I see where you were getting at.
Though, an exception for the one should be made, because otherwise it would be another plus to One-ring rolls.
You'd still need a test card though, and you waste the turn/card management even more for not using the normal ringlore, but perhaps in the long run it could pay off. But at least there's no danger of losing a ring to the testing gap, and good chances on the dwarven/spirit rings, especially with the scroll.
Hmm, interesting. Maybe give it even an MP? (like the light enchantments?)

[marcos]

he proposed it to be worth 1 MP:

Ringlore (V)

Permanent Event
MP: 1
May be played at a site where infomation is playable.
Tap a sage and the site to put this card on the table.
Whenever you test a ring, you may either add or subtract one to the roll. (After the roll)

[Jambo]

That's quite a cool Ringlore. The same could be done for a minion variant I suppose? Both might be need to exclude the One-ring, and maybe have it so it can't be duplicated at a given site by a player?

[marcos]

isn't "tap sage and site" enough to prevent it from being duplicated at a site without untapping it?

[Thorsten the Traveller]

well you can always untap site with stuff like Look more Closely (heros), or Secret Book (minions). I'd say just can't be duplicated on given sage, how you're going to have even more Ringlore? Not many people would have 3 sages in company just for a pesky 1 mp bonus.

[marcos]

agree with that: "cannot be duplicated on a given character"

[Jambo]

so it would need to say:

Ringlore (V)
Permanent Event
MP: 1
Playable on a sage character at an untapped site where infomation is playable. Tap the sage and the site. Whenever you test a ring, you may either add or subtract one to the roll (after the roll). Cannot be duplicated on a given character.

[Thorsten the Traveller]

Right, but you forgot the bit about the One-ring.
Maybe it could be made more powerfull still, but with drawbacks of course. Why not let sage tap to test a gold ring, make a CC, and this card gives 1 CP?

[marcos]

sounds nice