[V Card Suggestion] The Great Goblin

[Ringbearer]

The Great Goblin
Creature or Permanent Event.
MP: 2
P/B: 12/8
1 strike.
Unique
As a creature, playable keyed to High Pass, Goblin-Gate or The Under-Grottos.
As a permanent event, all orc attacks receive +1 strike. Also, any company moving trough High Pass, or using starter movement from Rivendell to Lorien faces one attack: orc, 2 strikes with 8 prowess. If Doors of Night in play, this attack also affects Anduin Vales and Rhudaur.


I based the Great Goblin loosely on Spider of the Morlat. I see him as a powerbase in the High pass. Besides striking himself, he commands an army of orcs capable of holding the pass. Also, when night falls, orc raiding parties set out to invade and plunder the surrounding lands. This is also told in his text. It will be a bit of pressure on starting companies, but since he is unique, drawing him in begin hand combine dwith doors wil seldom happen.

[Jambo]

lol, after our discussion I just posted a version of this too. Anyway I've since deleted that thread and re-posted here instead so as not to duplicate.

This card is just crying out to be virtualised !

[V] The Great Goblin
Creature/Permanent-event
Orc
MP: 2
PLAYABLE:
STRIKES: 1
PROWESS: 12
BODY: 7
Unique. Orc. As a creature, may also be played on a company moving from Rivendell to Lorien or from Lorien to Rivendell, or on a moving company that has previously visited Goblin Gate. May also be played keyed to High Pass, Goblin Gate and The Under-grottos.
Alternatively, The Great Goblin may be played as a permanent-event that gives +2 prowess to all Orc attacks. He may opt to attack from a permanent-event state and receive this bonus, but his attack counts as one against the hazard limit. Discard when The Great Goblin attacks.

[Jambo]

Mine was based on the card Full of Froth and Rage, and the playability add on is there to simulate the Great Goblin pursuing any company who's visited Goblin Gate.

[Bandobras Took]

I would find it a bit difficult to remember precisely which company has visited Goblin-Gate in some of my decks, so I would get rid of that playability feature as a needless complication -- the Great Goblin isn't going to follow a company all the way to Minas Tirith.

I can't believe I never even thought of this card when considering cards to be Virtualized! Just goes to show you how little use he sees.

[Leon]

Interesting ideas. I prefer Ringbearers version of the Great Goblin at the moment, though I would at least keep it playable on any company moving between Rivendell and Lorien with the path wwbw. Aside from Minions Stir there are already cards that give orcs extra prowess and body, Scimitars of Steel and Helms of Iron, so a card for an extra strike would be nice. I can imagine combinations with Pierced by Many Wounds or Imprisoned and Mocked. Do you want to have any way to have him attack from permanent status like Shelob or return to your hand like Spider of the Morlat?

Imprisoned and Mocked
TYPE: Hazard
CLASS: Permanent-event
Playable before strikes are assigned on a non-detainment Orc or Troll attack with more strikes than characters and allies in the company. If the attack is not canceled or defeated, make a roll following the attack adding two for each excess strike. If the result minus five is greater than the prowess of the highest mind character in the company (of your choice), place that character "off to the side" with this card and discard all cards on that character. Otherwise, discard this card. During that character's next long-event phase, discard this card and return the character to its owner's hand.

[Jambo]

Ok, how about a combination of the two:

The Great Goblin
Creature or Permanent Event.
MP: 2
P/B: 12/7
1 strike.
Unique
As a creature, playable keyed to High Pass, Goblin-Gate or The Under-grottos.
As a permanent event, all Orc attacks receive +1 strike. He may opt to attack from a permanent-event state and receive this bonus, but his attack counts as one against the hazard limit. Also, any company moving through High Pass, or using starter movement from Rivendell to Lorien faces one attack: Orcs, 2 strikes with 8 prowess. If Doors of Night in play, this attack also affects Anduin Vales and Rhudaur. Discard when The Great Goblin attacks.

[Bandobras Took]

I like that version. Put my vote in.

[GuardianOfTheFlame]

mmhh... maybe the Spider Of Morlat effect plus the shelob effect can be too strong (we should try)... however I like it!
Without this virtualization The Great Goblin is very bad and unusuable

[Jambo]

Well, you could make the attack from permanent-event require Doors of Night too? E.g.:

The Great Goblin
Creature or Permanent Event.
MP: 2
P/B: 12/7
1 strike.
Unique
As a creature, playable keyed to High Pass, Goblin-Gate or The Under-grottos.
As a permanent event, all Orc attacks receive +1 strike. Also, any company moving through High Pass, or using starter movement from Rivendell to Lorien faces one attack: Orcs, 2 strikes with 8 prowess. If Doors of Night in play, this attack also affects Anduin Vales and Rhudaur, and he may opt to attack from a permanent-event state and receive this bonus (counts as one against the hazard limit). Discard when The Great Goblin attacks.

[Ringbearer]

Spider of Morlat gives +1 strike to spiders too, so it isnt THAT strong.

[Leon]

Jambo, your last suggestion sounds fair, though I would start playtesting without that Doors requirement. In any case this card would make a hardly used card an essential part of an orc strategy, which is not much used but also gets a small improvement. This is what virtualizing cards is about, improving a weak card to enhance a weak strategy.

[GuardianOfTheFlame]

Spider of Morlat gives +1 strike to spiders too, so it isnt THAT strong

Sorry, I was not clear enough.
I was thinking that Spider Of Morlat (the version I prefer) cannot attack directly when in play: you must return it in hand and play it as creature (2 HL) and in this way it cannot receive its own bonus. The Pro is that it creates an attack on moving company in that regions.
Shelob instead can attack from his permanent status (1HL and not 2) but she doesn't create the attack.
I think that the attack created (3@8 consider his +1 strike) and the ability to attack from permanent status can be too strong.
As I said we must try to see, but think about this: The Great Goblin and Doors Of Night (often used with orcs) is in play and a company move through the regions stated on it. with only 2 HL I can play Minion Stir and attack with the Goblin: 5@10 and 4@14/7! And in regions not so dangerous as Imlad Morgul (Shelob) or Dol Guldur (Spider Of Morlat)

[Leon]

The attack of the Great Goblin itself would only be keyed to High Pass, only the 2x8 affects Rhudaur or Anduin Vales. And you only visit High Pass for Goblin Gate or when going to Lorien, which is usually only once per game or so. I do not think it will be that dangerous.

[Jambo]

As a creature The Great Goblin is still only keyable to High Pass, Goblin Gate and Under-grottos, regardless of whether DoN is play or not. So that's entirely avoidable for a shrewd player.

The +1 strike is ok, similar to Spider of the Morlat, and the standard Orc attack is also pretty much avoidable if DoN is not in play. So, DoN is really part of this strategy unless all you want is +1 strike. Because this can be really strong with Orc Lieutenant and Uruk Leader, I might have been tempted to opt for a prowess boost instead of +1 strike. Strikes are already fairly easy to come by for the crappy orc creatures like Orc Patrol and Orc Warriors and a prowess boost might have helped them more. Still there's always Pierced by Many Wounds and Imprisoned and Mocked as someone mentioned earlier.

[Ringbearer]

So, let is go back to this variant, where the attack from state doesnt need Doors. If it proves too strong, we can always add the Doors part. And of course, comments are always welcome.

The Great Goblin
Creature or Permanent Event.
MP: 2
P/B: 12/7
1 strike.
Unique
As a creature, playable keyed to High Pass, Goblin-Gate or The Under-grottos.
As a permanent event, all Orc attacks receive +1 strike. He may opt to attack from a permanent-event state and receive this bonus, but his attack counts as one against the hazard limit. Also, any company moving through High Pass, or using starter movement from Rivendell to Lorien faces one attack: Orcs, 2 strikes with 8 prowess. If Doors of Night in play, this attack also affects Anduin Vales and Rhudaur. Discard when The Great Goblin attacks.