FW Rings-For-Points Discussion

[Bandobras Took]

I'm posting this here rather than derail a rules discussion:

As I see it, the two stumbling blocks to FW Rings-For-Points are as follows:

1) Rolled. The standard defense against Rolled is to have a lot of spare rings, which is totally feasible in a Dunk deck. My experience has been that it's less feasible in a Rings-For-Points deck, because you need that space for other sources of MPs and the support cards.

2) Blind/Ire on the ring tests themselves. In a two-deck situation, there isn't much defense against this. Loading ring tests straight into the deck produces clog, recycling ring tests slows down cycling through the deck, and the delay often gives your opponent time to recycle Rolled again.

In my opinion, the combination of these two hazards makes a FW Rings-For-Points deck unviable.

The alternatives I've considered:

Gandalf can get rings tested without using a Short-Event, making him immune to Blind/Ire. However, tapping him for this purpose means not tapping him for anything else, creating its own set of problems.

A Black Rain deck. This hampers Rolled (though is still somewhat vulnerable to Ire) by obviating the necessity of Gold Ring Items. The obvious drawbacks are the opponent simply playing his characters on-guard during the m/h phase, and the need for extra rings to keep a person safe from Rolled anyway once you get the rings out.

As I'm pondering it, there may be something to a more aggressive anti-Rolled approach. Is there a way to consistently prevent Rolled recycling?

[Manuel]

My two cents on how to counter Rolled:

If you're playing against a Hero/FW opponent, you can pack your hazards with Bane of the Ithil Stone x3 and build your deck accordingly (no Mouth, no Uvatha, no recurring effects)

If you're playing against a Minion opponent, there's a trick I use (I copied it from Miguel Ortiz, a very good player from Chile) Here's the decklist:

https://meccg.com/deck/hobbits-jugando- ... -siraynad/

And here's the relevant section, copy-pasted:

Combo: Si lo notaron el mazo lleva a La dama, Elrond y Elfo encolerizado en el side, lo que es raro sobre todo en la dama que lo normal es que vaya de main, pero al llevar 7 espectros, es cosa de que salga uno y lo primero que hace es bajar y hacer side a descartes, y metes los 3 elfos a descartes (aquí corregí el error anterior y llevé un Arthedain Rangers, también metí caballeros del príncipe, no los usé porque no me tocó contra los 2 mazos que jugaban por esa zona, pero creo que son buenos si se esperan algunos minion por minas tirith y alrededores). Bueno recuperarlos del descarte es relativamente fácil, los 3 regresar más allá de toda esperanza, la Boca y Uvatha son 5 cartas que permiten devolver el señor de la caza y este a la dama y queda el elfo y los dunadan en descartes para cuando lo necesites para pegar (sino no lo devolvía porque mueves menos el mazo).

It's basically having the Lady of the Golden Wood in the sb along with Master of the House. The deck packs many nazguls, so as soon possible a nazgul is discarded and those 2 elves are sent to the discard pile. You can then retreive them with Returned Beyond all Hope/Uvatha/Mouth. What I usually do is 1st I grab Master of the House, and then that retreives Galadriel. Since it's a hazard portion with lots of permanent hazards, your opponent's Voices of Malice are usually not enough (if he discards Galadriel, then Master of the House retreives her the nextu turn, if he discards Elrond Galadriel is still in play, and both can be retreived with Returned, etc).

As a side, note, you can also start with two mind rings as minor items. They are useful besides being targets of Rolled.

Hope this helps!

[Bandobras Took]

Part of my problem has been playing against marcos. Believe me, two mind rings just are *not* enough.

[Bandobras Took]

I'd also add that preventing recycling vs Hero/FW also prevents your own recycling vs. Rolled, so it's a double-edged sword.

[Bandobras Took]

Now, regarding Blind/Ire: Riddle Game presents an interesting opportunity, if you send a sage to hang out with their Haven-squatters. Obviously a bit more effective and safer vs Wizard/FW than vs Minion, but FWs have an easier time countering minion recycling of Rolled.

[Bandobras Took]

As a side note, it's possible ICE felt that rings-for-points play was a little underrepresented overall, as one of the rule changes they were playtesting was allowing sages to tap to test rings.

[Bandobras Took]

On second thought, scratch the Riddle Game. Between the possible necessity of facing auto-attacks at various sites and the absolutely disastrous consequences should you lose, it's as unreliable as everything else.

[Bandobras Took]

Other anti-hazard recycling can include Knowledge of the Enemy for Outposts and Mouth+Fury of the Iron Crown to get rid of Mouth of Sauron.