Countering 'Pilfer Anything Unwatched' against a hobbit?

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Lake Town Geezer
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:x Anyone care to share tactics on countering 'Pilfer Anything Unwatched' verses hobbits as a hero player?

My thoughts:

1. Make sure you have a full army of 4 or 5 hobbits in your company. That way if one gets pilferred away it may not be a disaster for your one ring strategy. A bit crude given pilfer isnt a unique, but it is likely to be in the opponents sideboard at the game start at least.
2. Play 'Mistress Lobelia' as an ally yourself to prevent the opponent bringing the agent 'Lobeila Sackville Baggins' into play (not sure if this even works TBH)?
3. Include the agent ''Lobelia Sackville Baggins' in your own hazard deck and hope to get her in play first - that way your opponent has to influence her away to use her (again not sure if this even works)? Edit: Confirmed does work - opponent cannot use pilfer with your copy of Lobelia in play.
4. Dont play with hobbits!
5. Keep cycling 'Tookish Blood' as a resource whenever possible to overide the returning to the players hand function as much as possible (needs to be played in the organisation phase - Pilfer is only played in the m/h phase). It can be recycled with 'Mouth of Sauron' of course, or 'Unexpected Outpost' - which could be handy.
6. Keep your precious hobbit(s) in havens as much as possible, then you can use 'elf-song' to prevent returning to the players hand as well.
7. Use 'hidden knife' with an assassin to try and take out Lobelia at Bag End or Bree (maybe even your own Lobelia?)
8. Use 'I know much about you' vs. Lobelia (keep a copy in hand as a defence at all or critical times - good defence against assassins, though a hobbit is not going to be in freeholds/borderholds once the game starts).
9. Without a wizard in the company, use 'palm to palm' on your hobbit to increase his mind permanently (potentially Bilbo or Frodo can have 8 mind with three copies) in order to improve resistance to the pilfer effect.
10. Have Tom Bombadil as an ally in the hobbits company and use his ability. Limited by restrictions on Tom's movement of course.
11. If playing against a Fallen Wizard or Minion opponent, consider not starting with the hobbit ring bearer, but get him later. Many such players will include Lobelia in the starting 10 character pool as a defence against hobbit decks. When they see you are not starting with a hobbit they will remove Lobelia from the game immediately after the draft. Even maybe include Thorin, for example, in your starting company making them include Dror in the deck instead, then remove him from the game first turn organisation phase (kind of crafty) to make room for a hobbit. Go grab himat Bag End turn 1 (need to be a bit flexible here though as you never can be sure who will appear in the hand - at least Folco Boffin can be replaced with another hobbit later at Lorien, so effectively if you have Sam, Bilbo, Folco and Frodo all in the deck your chances are fair of getting a good ring bearer out in the first couple of turns).
12. Hazard limit reduction to 0 for the hobbits' company (kind of thematic in the sense it was a company size of 1 for Frodo/Sam in the LotRs, so if you have Frodo + Sam and play 'Many Turns And Doublings' with GoM you cannot be pilfered that m/h phase)*!

Added:
13. 'Withdrawn to Mordor' vs Lobelia (thanks Throndor).
14. Remember to use 'Here is a Snake' to force your opponent to reveal their face down Lobelia asap so you can get ready to deal with her (e.g use hidden knife). Also has the advantage that it is useful against Baduila as well (thanks CDavis7M).

(*Edit: sadly I realise that if you have another company then the pilfer can be just played during that companies m/h phase so then this will overide this thematic defence. Of course you could just ensure there are no other companies in play at this point - that is difficult to achieve though. Maybe deliberately kill off Gandalf once he has identified the One Ring for you or use Bilbo to identify the ring with a wizard-free deck strategy).
Last edited by Lake Town Geezer on Sat May 06, 2023 5:55 am, edited 25 times in total.
thorondor
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What about the card Withdrawn to Mordor?
Lake Town Geezer
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thorondor wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 12:16 pm What about the card Withdrawn to Mordor?
Great thanks - added! Forgot that one.
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sarma72
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Personally, when I run Hobbits I have 2 or 3 Tookish Blood in my deck and Lobelia Sackville Baggins in my sideboard (together with Dror and a Pilfer. TBs are needed anyway because Hobbits (especially when going for 4 of them) like to be Called Home.
“The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot forever fence it out.”
Lake Town Geezer
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sarma72 wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 1:09 pm Personally, when I run Hobbits I have 2 or 3 Tookish Blood in my deck and Lobelia Sackville Baggins in my sideboard (together with Dror and a Pilfer. TBs are needed anyway because Hobbits (especially when going for 4 of them) like to be Called Home.
Thanks Marc... hopefully get a game soon.

This is one reason i am liking the idea of a wizardless hobbit based deck ('Saw Further and Deeper' for +5GI, plus the potential to run a company of two hobbits (Sam + AN Other) with a hazard limit of zero (using two copies of 'Many Turns and Doublings' and the 'Ash Mountains') as they head to Mount Doom. This has to be the most authentic (and satisfying) ring dunk of them all.
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CDavis7M
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The nice thing about the resources and hazards in Dark Minions is that they often have multiple uses. Though its mostly corner cases and I think the design team was a bit different and so some things are wonky because of that, or because many ideas were combined into single cards, or both.

The easiest way is to play Lobelia yourself which makes your opponent need to access resources to deal with her on top of the hazards they wanted. It's a lot. Especially in view of all the protection Hobbits have mentioned already.

Withdrawn to Mordor is nice and it seems to be a favorite but it's not the clear top pick to me. I think it really depends. Like other agent specific resources, it doesn't work against Baduila and it also doesnt help much against high mind agents with homesites where you are. The on-guard ability is nice, and might catch some newer players off guard.

There is also Here is a Snake. It's not going to stop Pilfer but my experience is that revealing Baduila is about the best you can do against him. Here is a Snake also works against the ubiquitous Mouth and Uvatha.

Hidden Knife is not so effective and lacks a secondary ability.

I know Much About You has effects that are useful in many decks, but I think it's more suited to Gondor.

And, you know, Pilfer only returns 1 character to your hand based on a roll. It's reasonable.
Lake Town Geezer
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CDavis7M wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 9:11 pm The nice thing about the resources and hazards in Dark Minions is that they often have multiple uses. Though its mostly corner cases and I think the design team was a bit different and so some things are wonky because of that, or because many ideas were combined into single cards, or both.

The easiest way is to play Lobelia yourself which makes your opponent need to access resources to deal with her on top of the hazards they wanted. It's a lot. Especially in view of all the protection Hobbits have mentioned already.

Withdrawn to Mordor is nice and it seems to be a favorite but it's not the clear top pick to me. I think it really depends. Like other agent specific resources, it doesn't work against Baduila and it also doesnt help much against high mind agents with homesites where you are. The on-guard ability is nice, and might catch some newer players off guard.

There is also Here is a Snake. It's not going to stop Pilfer but my experience is that revealing Baduila is about the best you can do against him. Here is a Snake also works against the ubiquitous Mouth and Uvatha.

Hidden Knife is not so effective and lacks a secondary ability.

I know Much About You has effects that are useful in many decks, but I think it's more suited to Gondor.

And, you know, Pilfer only returns 1 character to your hand based on a roll. It's reasonable.
Thanks for this. I just got it into my head that Pilfer + Lobelia is now seen as the main way of 'stopping' hobbit decks ... but clearly I think if you combine, say, 2-3 ways of countering it in a deck (to have a belt and braces approach) it can be countered with relatively little risk. Wasn't sure if you could play your own Lobelia to prevent it. I dont know why, but just love the idea of using an assassin against her with 'Hidden Knife' (maybe it's because she always reminded me of Margaret Thatcher when I read the LotRs for the first time o=in the 80s) - if the opponent is playing as a hero wizard, you are likely to have 2-3 copies of assassin in the deck anyway so one copy of 'Hidden Knife' in the sideboard (a resource too, so easy to bring in) might be worth it as a safety net if the opponent gets Lobelia out before you.
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CDavis7M
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Lake Town Geezer wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 5:27 am if the opponent is playing as a hero wizard, you are likely to have 2-3 copies of assassin in the deck anyway so one copy of 'Hidden Knife' in the sideboard (a resource too, so easy to bring in) might be worth it as a safety net if the opponent gets Lobelia out before you.
It's not a bad idea but Hidden Knife is only going to work long after Pilfer has resolved. And how many copies of Pilfer are they really going to have? Depending on your company it might make sense to just eat the Pilfer roll and keep A Chance Meeting in the deck to solve this issue.

The other anti-agent resources have utility that makes them nice straight in the deck. But Hidden Knife doesn't have that.
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Bandobras Took
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One I didn't see mentioned is Necklace of Silver and Pearls. +5 mind to the Hobbit, costing no influence, can be a life-saver.
The game is flawed, but this does not mean it cannot be loved.
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