General Deckbuilding Numbers

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Bob654
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:02 pm

I'm working on putting together a number of decks at the moment for the first time in 2 decades (and 2 decades ago I was 14, so my deck-building analytical skills for deck-building weren't really up to snuff).

For the hazard portion:
The tournament restriction of at least 12 creatures (with half-creature value for various things) seems to give a lot of direction that you probably want to stick fairly close to that 12 creature minimum (otherwise why would it be there). So assuming a 30 card count, I should be aiming for meeting the 12 creature minimum, and then filling up the rest of the 30 with powerful non-creature hazards (that ideally don't have a lot of strong pre-conditions so that I can run through my hazards in hand up to the hazard limit each M/H phase pretty easily).

For the resource portion:
What should a typical deck look like in terms of a ratio of MP-bearing to non-MP-bearing cards? I was starting with an assumption of like 60/40 of MP cards to MP-less support cards (whether those be combat events, or necessary components to an MP card, e.g. a ring test card). I'm sensing that that might be a little heavy on MP-bearing cards though.

For characters:
Rules indicate that I can add up to 10 additional characters to my deck beyond my starting company, and 3 copies of my avatar. Does a typical deck utilize all 10 of those character slots? Is 3x my avatar an auto-include, or is this overkill?


Any thoughts are appreciated.
For reference, I'm primarily designing decks with the 2-Deck Short Game in mind.
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CDavis7M
Posts: 2816
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:10 am
Location: California

Bob654 wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 5:53 pm The tournament restriction of at least 12 creatures (with half-creature value for various things) seems to give a lot of direction that you probably want to stick fairly close to that 12 creature minimum (otherwise why would it be there).
It depends on what you want to do and how you enjoy playing the game. Some people enjoy the game itself -- they like the adventure/story aspects, putting their opponent's characters to the test, seeing how luck plays out. Other people enjoy moving cards around -- they like moving cards from their deck to their hand, then to the table, and then to the discard pile. Moving cards is nice if you don't enjoy the game itself because the game ends sooner. A side benefit is that you can speed through your deck, get the all the "best/easiest" cards and be more likely to win the game.

An early tournament strategy was to fill your deck with corruption cards, which are easy to play, and just dump them all on the table so that your hand is full of MPs. Then on your turn you would dump multiple MPs and other cards at the same site (items, thorough search, rescue prisoners), filling your hand back up with more easy to play corruption cards. Rinse and repeat. So this is why the 12 creature minimum was implemented. Blasting through the deck does lead to winning more often. But it's not the only viable strategy or the only way to have fun.
Bob654 wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 5:53 pm So assuming a 30 card count, I should be aiming for meeting the 12 creature minimum, and then filling up the rest of the 30 with powerful non-creature hazards (that ideally don't have a lot of strong pre-conditions so that I can run through my hazards in hand up to the hazard limit each M/H phase pretty easily).
There are some creature heavy decks. It really just depends on what you want. You might enjoy playing with a bunch of Orcs or Wolves. You can even mix Drakes and Wolves. Spiders and Men also have good booster cards. Agents can be a big annoyance to your opponent. There are a lot of fun options.

If you just want to TryHard you can just use 3x Assassin, 3x Sellswords Between Charters, and 3x Cave-drake in your deck for 9 creatures against Hero/Wizards. Then add these "half-creatures" Uvatha the Horseman, Mouth of Sauron, Adunaphel, Daelomin at Home for 11. And now you have 1 decisions left over. Maybe you add Ren the Unclean and Itangast at Home for corruption. Or Nameless Thing to hit underdeeps/surface sites. Or Old Man Willow. And that's 12 creatures with about 15 of 30 cards remaining. Then add Rolled Down to Sea, The Balance of Things, 3x River, 3x Foolish Words, 3x An Unexpected Outpost, 3x Twilight, and you're pretty much done.
Bob654 wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 5:53 pm For the resource portion:
What should a typical deck look like in terms of a ratio of MP-bearing to non-MP-bearing cards? I was starting with an assumption of like 60/40 of MP cards to MP-less support cards (whether those be combat events, or necessary components to an MP card, e.g. a ring test card). I'm sensing that that might be a little heavy on MP-bearing cards though.
This really depends on the value of the MPs. You need to hit at least 25MP, and you probably want to hit 30-40MP. A good way to think about it is "What cards do I want in my opening hand?" and "What can I play each turn?". You draw 8 cards and then will draw 1-2 cards from movement. You need to have some MP card playable in those 9/30 cards. And hopefully 2 MP cards that are playable. But on later turns you won't usually be drawing 8 cards, it may only be 1-4, depending on how many hazards you are able to play. And then you end of turn discard. So now you might need to be drawing an MP from only 2-5 cards. Generally, having 10-15MP cards is reasonable depending on whether they are worth 3-4MP or 1-2MP. You could have even less MP cards if they were larger MPs with a game plan, like The White Tree, Fate of the Ithil-Stone + Palantirs, or something like that. I find that having 12 MPs (or MP supporting cards) is typical for me. Some of these cards can be put in the sideboard depending on what you're doing.

Bob654 wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 5:53 pm For characters:
Rules indicate that I can add up to 10 additional characters to my deck beyond my starting company, and 3 copies of my avatar. Does a typical deck utilize all 10 of those character slots? Is 3x my avatar an auto-include, or is this overkill?
3x is auto-include. They are pretty useful. You'll see many people don't use all 10 characters. 3-5 is typical. It's good to have a backup character in case an essential character is eliminated. It's also nice to have characters to come into play with your Wizard later. This is free MP and they can start collecting more MP. Stll, if you want to burn through your deck quickly you don't want to have a lot of characters since they are harder to play and not quick to play. Using A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill can help.

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viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2904

If you're deck building, these maps in this post are great. You can browse your cards, come up with an idea, and then use this map to flush out the rest. See what other items, allies, and factions are playable in the same area. You can even add characters with homesites where the MPs are playable.
Bob654
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:02 pm

Fantastically helpful, thank you.

I think I'm aiming for more of a competitive-thematic level than a full-blown tryhard. I'm a competitive person, so I want a deck that wins and feels like it "works" fully, but I also want some amount of variety. Call it 75% tryhard :)
Thanks for all of the tips!
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CDavis7M
Posts: 2816
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Location: California

Bob654 wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 7:29 pm Fantastically helpful, thank you.

I think I'm aiming for more of a competitive-thematic level than a full-blown tryhard. I'm a competitive person, so I want a deck that wins and feels like it "works" fully, but I also want some amount of variety. Call it 75% tryhard :)
Thanks for all of the tips!
Cool stuff. If you see some interesting cards or you have a theme you like, post back and me or someone else can direct you to some ideas, combos, or decks. Things like Dragon slaying/King Under the Mountain, Anduril, The One Ring, Nazgul in the Shire, Fallen Saruman, Radagast animals, Balrog, Orcs fighting hero companies, or Magic. And for hazards Nazgul hazard attacks, dragon attacks, orc swarm, corruption, undead, it goes on and on.

You can play online over at https://cardnum.net/

Where are you located? There are play groups in California, Colorado, and some other players smattered across the US. Also lots of players in Europe.
Bob654
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:02 pm

CDavis7M wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 4:01 am
Bob654 wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 7:29 pm Fantastically helpful, thank you.

I think I'm aiming for more of a competitive-thematic level than a full-blown tryhard. I'm a competitive person, so I want a deck that wins and feels like it "works" fully, but I also want some amount of variety. Call it 75% tryhard :)
Thanks for all of the tips!
Cool stuff. If you see some interesting cards or you have a theme you like, post back and me or someone else can direct you to some ideas, combos, or decks. Things like Dragon slaying/King Under the Mountain, Anduril, The One Ring, Nazgul in the Shire, Fallen Saruman, Radagast animals, Balrog, Orcs fighting hero companies, or Magic. And for hazards Nazgul hazard attacks, dragon attacks, orc swarm, corruption, undead, it goes on and on.

You can play online over at https://cardnum.net/

Where are you located? There are play groups in California, Colorado, and some other players smattered across the US. Also lots of players in Europe.
Yup, those are all things I'm working on building. I had a pretty sizable collection of TW, TD, DM and WH from 20 years ago (there was a point where they just had boxes of all of those sets for $15-20 at Gamestop, or I think it was still Electronics Boutique at the time, so I was able to buy up a lot even as a youngster). So I have plenty of material for building lots of different decks.

(I'm working on completing my deficient LE and AS materials now which is something I've always wanted to do)

I love the early 90s CCG design-space, when the concept was still new enough that designers weren't really thinking about what's going to sell to the lowest common denominator and were still focused on making cool games. When you compare MECCG, Star Wars CCG, Babylon 5 CCG, original L5R sets etc to the next generation of stuff that came out in the 2000s... well there's certainly a lot less words on the cards lol. Middle Earth is the last great 90s game that I had played growing up that I have yet to complete my collection the way I would have wanted to at the time.

I'm in Salt Lake City; but if anything I'm more likely to test the waters on cardnum.
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CDavis7M
Posts: 2816
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:10 am
Location: California

Bob654 wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 6:33 pm I'm in Salt Lake City; but if anything I'm more likely to test the waters on cardnum.
Great! If you are interested, there are a few players in Las Vegas. And some of the California guys drive/fly to LV to play Middle Earth. You can read a bit about it here: viewtopic.php?f=105&t=4016
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Theo
Posts: 1393
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:49 pm
Location: Denver, CO

If I remember, Bandobras was around that area.
One [online community] with hammer and chisel might mar more than they make...
All players are welcome at Meduseld! https://theo-donly.github.io/MECCG/
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