FW Dunk Deck?

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Kjeld
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:40 pm

FW Dunk Deck?

Post by Kjeld »

Does anyone have an example of a fallen-wizard deck that uses A New Ringlord? If not, which do you think would be the strongest wizard to build around?

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Bandobras Took
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Re: FW Dunk Deck?

Post by Bandobras Took »

None.

The problem is the ring tests. Any competent opponent will see which ring type you're testing and hold his Blinds/Ires to make sure you can't actually test the rings in time to win.

Against a less competent opponent or somebody who believes FWs actually deserve a chance to dunk, Fallen Saruman.

Put together a party of 4 mind Warrior/Rangers, use Binding Rings to lower their mind and shield against Rolled, then get rings at Ost-In-Edhil and Isles of The Dead as well as the Scroll at Stones. You can reach Isengard from all of these sites.

Saruman can pull Wizard's Tests from the discard. Test, play as many Ringlords as you can, then go to Amon Hen for the roll.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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Bandobras Took
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Re: FW Dunk Deck?

Post by Bandobras Took »

Deck
3 Saruman [F] (WH)

2 Crept Along Carefully (BA)
2 Dodge (TW)
2 Gates of Morning (TW)
2 Longbottom Leaf (BA)
2 Many Turns and Doublings (TD)
2 Marvels Told (TD)
2 Precious Gold Ring (TW)
1 Scroll of Isildur [H] (TW)
2 Smoke Rings (DM)
1 The One Ring [H] (TW)

2 Crept Along Cleverly (WH)
2 Dark Tryst (AS)
1 Going Ever Under Dark (BA)
2 Under His Blow (LE)
2 Voices of Malice (LE)
2 Weigh All Things to a Nicety (LE)

1 The Forge-master (WH)

Pool

1 Arinmîr (TW)
1 Denethor II (TW)
1 Elladan (TW)
1 Elrohir (TW)
1 Gildor Inglorion (TW)
1 Eradan (LE)
1 Gulla (LE)
1 Mîonid (AS)
1 Nevido Smôd (LE)

2 Binding-ring (LE)

1 Saruman's Ring (WH)
1 Wizard's Myrmidon (WH)

Sideboard

2 Great-road (TW)
2 Old Friendship (TW)
2 Promptings of Wisdom (WH)
2 Wizard's Test (TW)

2 Iron-road (LE)

3 A New Ringlord (WH)
3 Thrall of the Voice (WH)

This one uses HL reduction and cards to stay untapped against AA strikes; ideal starting party is the elf brothers in one company with Gildor and Gulla/whoever in another (if you use Denethor or Arinmir with Myrmidon, they can control another 4-minder with a ring, if you're worried about influence). Great Road and Iron Road let you return to Isengard to play another New Ringlord if your last trip to Amon Hen didn't work out.

You also can potentially go to Isle of the Ulond if Rohan's too risky for whatever reason (e.g. agents).

Saruman's Ring lets you get the Binding Rings back in your hand for added Rolled cushioning.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

Kjeld
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:40 pm

Re: FW Dunk Deck?

Post by Kjeld »

Cool, thanks! It's a bummer that it's so easy to shut down, though. Obviously, this strategy shouldn't be too strong, but it'd be nice if it at least had a fighting chance.

Bob654
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Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:02 pm

Re: FW Dunk Deck?

Post by Bob654 »

Question:
(Because I was going to dabble with building A New Ringlord too)
The problem is the ring tests. Any competent opponent will see which ring type you're testing and hold his Blinds/Ires to make sure you can't actually test the rings in time to win.
If the belief is that the biggest issue for the deck is having the Wizard's Tests cancelled by Blind to the West, would it make more sense to build around FW Gandalf instead to use his tap to test as a back up plan?

Vastor Peredhil
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Location: Kempen (Niederrhein) Germany

Re: FW Dunk Deck?

Post by Vastor Peredhil »

well better be fast then and test a ring before opponent sideboards these in ;), also he has 3 blinds 3 /ire - you need more ring tests ;)

scroll of Isildur is more important than the ring tests ;) also there are way to prevent blind and ire to as well - only in tourney I have ever seen them included straight in deck

yours Nicolai

Bob654
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Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:02 pm

Re: FW Dunk Deck?

Post by Bob654 »

Question on testing rings in this situation:
(let's see if I get the timing terminology right here... :roll: )

Is the discarding of the gold ring an active condition of a ring test, or an effect of the ring test?

What I'm trying to get at, in case I got the terminology wrong:
I play Wizard's Test - do I need to discard the gold ring I'm testing on declaration of the action, or upon resolution? (so that if the test is cancelled with Blind to the West, is the gold ring still in play or not?)

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CDavis7M
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Location: California

Re: FW Dunk Deck?

Post by CDavis7M »

Bob654 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 6:40 pm
Is the discarding of the gold ring an active condition of a ring test, or an effect of the ring test?

What I'm trying to get at, in case I got the terminology wrong:
I play Wizard's Test - do I need to discard the gold ring I'm testing on declaration of the action, or upon resolution? (so that if the test is cancelled with Blind to the West, is the gold ring still in play or not?)
The discarding of a Gold Ring for a ring test is not an active condition that happens at declaration. It happens after the roll at resolution of the ring test. All of the "ring test" cards/effects just "test" the ring, they don't discard the ring. Testing a ring is described in the rules:
MELE p. 44 and 45 wrote:If the roll indicates a special ring that you have in your hand, you may replace the gold ring with that ring and discard the gold ring. Otherwise, you just discard the gold ring (i.e., it was not that special). If the roll indicates more than one special ring in your hand, you choose which to play.
...
Example: You have Tarcil and Pon Opar (a sage) in the same company. Tarcil has A little Gold Ring. In your hand, you have a Test of Fire card and three ring cards: Trifling Ring (a lesser ring), Magic Ring of Lies, and
Dwarven Ring of Durin's Tribe.
Because Pon Opar is a sage in the same company as a gold ring, you play your Test of Fire on Tarcil's gold ring at any time during your turn. You roll a 5 for the test, so you may play either your Trifling Ring (any result) or your Magic Ring of Lies (6 or less) with Tarcil. In either case, the gold ring is discarded. If you had rolled a 9 or higher, you would have had the choice of playing your Dwarven Ring of Durin's Tribe or your Trifling Ring.
The Gold Ring is discarded after the roll. If the ring is not tested, then it is still the same Gold Ring item. If Blind to the West (or IotE) cancels the ring test then the Gold Ring is not discarded.

----------

Note that hero gold rings tested by a Fallen Wizard player have the roll modified by -1 per the White Hand rules p. 4. So the ring test is more difficult.

But the deal breaker for me was actually A New Ringlord itself. This is a stage card, so it needs to be played during the Organization Phase at a Wizardhaven, only 1 per turn. Then you have to move to a Ruins and Lairs where information is playable in order to make the roll to win at the End of Turn phase. If you have 1 copy of A New Ringlord, you have 28% chance of winning and the same 28% chance of losing. These are not good odds for me. With 2 copies you have a 48% chance of winning and a 16% chance or losing. And even if you do risk this, you would have to move back to your Wizard haven to play the 3rd copy.

So, to me, it really seems like you need all 3 copies in play, which takes 3 whole turns after you tested for The One Ring. You do have about an 80% chance of winning at this point. But if your opponent wanted to scramble to burn through their deck by moving to Easterling Camp to draw 4 cards, they would have plenty of time to do so.

I just don't see how a Fallen Wizard could win quick enough in a 2-deck game. My try at doing it never got past play testing. But if you were playing a 3 or 4-deck game, I think it's certainly viable to get 3 copies of A New Ringlord down before you attempt it. Of course, this also gives your opponent time to sideboard in their One Ring hazards, especially Rolled Down to the Sea which is fairly likely to be straight in their deck already.

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