End of org. phase cards/actions

[Wacho]

There's been a question brought up about end of org phase cards and actions. Basically since there are multiple things that can be required to happen and the end of the org phase what is the rule for what happens first, etc.

Here's a link to the thread http://www.meccg.net/dforum/viewtopic.php?p=18780#18780

I like what William said about how things should be played.

[miguel]

You seem to assume that 'end of org. phase' and 'end of move/haz phase' situations are limited to a single chain of effects. Is there some rule like that? Personally I've always thought you can have multiple chains at those points, but are restricted to specific cards/actions ('end of foo phase only').

[zarathustra]

I agree with Mikko.

[Konrad Klar]

You seem to assume that 'end of org. phase' and 'end of move/haz phase' situations are limited to a single chain of effects. Is there some rule like that? Personally I've always thought you can have multiple chains at those points, but are restricted to specific cards/actions ('end of foo phase only').

Is player restricted to the cards/actions playable at the end of end-of-turn phase after discarding one card and reconsiling his hand (first and last activity specific for end-of-turn phase)?
If begining/end of phase is not time before/after other activities specific for given phase*, when exactly Saruman's ability can be used?

*) It seems be true at least in case of end of untap phase:

Corruption checks triggered at the end of the untap phase happen after everyone untaps.

[miguel]

Is player restricted to the cards/actions playable at the end of end-of-turn phase after discarding one card and reconsiling his hand (first and last activity specific for end-of-turn phase)?

What card/action is relevant to 'the end of the end-of-turn phase'? You reconcile hand at 'end-of-turn phase' so afterwards you can still play anything that you normally can at 'end-of-turn phase'.

If begining/end of phase is not time before/after other activities specific for given phase*, when exactly Saruman's ability can be used?

That's exactly how it is...

[Konrad Klar]

Is player restricted to the cards/actions playable at the end of end-of-turn phase after discarding one card and reconsiling his hand (first and last activity specific for end-of-turn phase)?

What card/action is relevant to 'the end of the end-of-turn phase'? You reconcile hand at 'end-of-turn phase' so afterwards you can still play anything that you normally can at 'end-of-turn phase'.

If begining/end of phase is not time before/after other activities specific for given phase*, when exactly Saruman's ability can be used?

That's exactly how it is...

Again I'm sorry for unlocking, but this time opened questions exists.

If player can play e.g. Houses of Healing or Marvels Told before applicating untapping/healing effects specific for untap phase and if player can play resources after reconciling of hand in end-of-turn-phase, then this means that at beginning/end of phase he is not restricted to cards/actions playable at the begining/end of phase (or triggered by begining/end of phase).
My interpretation of this situation is that at begining/end of phase player is prevented from taking actions specific for given phase and only at this time he can take actions (play cards) playable at the begining/end of phase.
At this time he can also play other cards (take non-specific to given phase actions) otherwise playable.

[miguel]

Ok I will break it down for you with 'untap phase':

(1) Beginning of untap phase: Now you get to play cards that are specifically playable at 'beginning of untap phase'.

(2) Untap phase (main part): Now you get to play any cards that are not restricted to a specific phase, and cards specific to untap phase. You get to choose at what point you untap/heal your characters, but you must do it before part (3).

(3) End of untap phase: Now everything 'end of untap phase' will take place. You may not play Marvels Told here, but you could use Friend or Three in response to a cc from Lure of the Senses since it targets the dice roll.


Now for a real example, take Stealth. You must play it at 'end of organization phase'. After that you may not play A Chance Meeting to get another character in their stealthy company. This is what all the fuss regarding Sneakin's wording has been about, since Sneakin' is played in the "main part" of organization phase and is therefore easier to abuse.

[Konrad Klar]

Now for a real example, take Stealth. You must play it at 'end of organization phase'. After that you may not play A Chance Meeting to get another character in their stealthy company. This is what all the fuss regarding Sneakin's wording has been about, since Sneakin' is played in the "main part" of organization phase and is therefore easier to abuse.

Playing of A Chance Meeting after Stealth is not restricted too much by such interpretation. Company is at site in long-event phase and then A Chance Meeting can be played.

Is there end of end-of-turn phase in your opinion and if so when it happens (at which moment of end-of-turn phase player may not play Marvels Told)?

[miguel]

I think 'end of end-of-turn phase' (if you want to call it that) would be synonymous with 'end of the turn' which is used by cards like Great Road. This happens when the player declares it happens (naturally after mandatory end-of-turn phase stuff has been dealt with). Similarly I would say 'beginning of untap phase' (if this term is actually used in the game) would be synonymous with 'start/beginning of the turn'.

[Konrad Klar]

So you're treating end of untap phase and end of end-of-turn phase differently. According to you end of untap phase is when last specific for that phase action occurs, end of end-of-turn phase is when player is declaring so.

[miguel]

So you're treating end of untap phase and end of end-of-turn phase differently. According to you end of untap phase is when last specific for that phase action occurs, end of end-of-turn phase is when player is declaring so.

???

I didn't say anything like that... 'End of untap phase' would also happen when the player is done with what he wants to do in main part of untap phase (that's including mandatory actions)... Now unless others from this board see things from your point of view, this matter is settled.

[Konrad Klar]

Ok, now I understand (I hope). Your interprertation seems to be quite consistent.

Summing up:
End of phase is when players are declaring so, in case of org. phase it is when new sites are choosen for all moving companies. At the end of phase players are limited to actions/cards playable at the end of given phase and cards/actions played in response targeting dice-rolling actions.

Alright?

How about actions from Traitor triggered by failed cc (and possible other actions caused by passive conditions) if failed cc occurs (passive conditions is produced) in chain of effects initiated by cards/actions played at the end of phase?