User banned

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Kodi
Council Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 12:22 pm

Dear forum members,

As the administrator of this space, I want to address an important matter that has negatively impacted our community. Over the past few months, we have witnessed disruptive, challenging, and provocative behavior from the user CDavis7M.

While CDavis7M may not have violated the rules of usage on this specific occasion, their consistent attitude has created an inappropriate environment and disrupted the forum's harmony. Despite previous attempts to moderate their behavior through various means, unfortunately, the situation has not improved, leading to the decision of an indefinite ban.

Our primary goal is to maintain a positive, respectful, and collaborative environment for all members of our community. The problematic behavior displayed by this user has had a negative effect on the quality of our discussions and has caused tensions among other participants. Considering the impact it has had on the overall well-being of our community, the decision to ban them has been made.

We appreciate your understanding and support regarding this decision. We are committed to maintaining a safe and welcoming space for all members, and we will continue to take the necessary actions to ensure it.

Sincerely,

Kodi
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Theo
Posts: 1393
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:49 pm
Location: Denver, CO

I would invite you to provide links to the behavior you are claiming along with measurable impacts. An appearance of banning someone for primarily pointing out inaccuracies of Council Members or dissenting from the their approach would be better to avoid. It could cause tensions among participants.

I would also be curious about discussion among the Council for deciding to give an IP ban as apposed to something like read-only or subforum-specific access. I suspect I could find more than 42 positive posts that CDavis7M has contributed to this community over the last few years, if that is useful.
One [online community] with hammer and chisel might mar more than they make...
All players are welcome at Meduseld! https://theo-donly.github.io/MECCG/
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Konrad Klar
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Personally I think that if not CDavis7M and his (often) critical attitude against me I could put a less of effort to make my statements as precise as I can.

Some of his excesses, like:

viewtopic.php?f=162&t=4732
viewtopic.php?f=162&t=4682

are obviously foolish words, but they are mostly harmless. :)
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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Kodi
Council Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 12:22 pm

Hi Theo, thank you for your opinion and your critical spirit.

I've been thinking for a few days about how I wanted to respond to you, as it's not an easy task.

First and foremost, I highly value the excellent work that CDavis7M has done and the immeasurable value of many of its contributions. In that regard, I have no objections to what you have specifically pointed out.

For that very reason, it has been a very difficult decision for me as the forum administrator, and as soon as possible, we will address this issue in the upcoming CoE meeting.

Regarding your mention of providing evidence such as links, I have decided that I don't want to make it public because I find it in poor taste.

I have more than enough reasons and evidence, both objective and subjective, and I am confident that I have made the right decision given the repeated negative behavior.

If anyone genuinely believes that this decision was deliberate and without foundation, I invite them to send me a private message, and I will explain the reasons more clearly without engaging in an endless discussion.

I also want to take this opportunity to engage in self-criticism regarding this forum, as I believe that moderation has not been well executed for a long time, and the rules and guidelines have not been clear. Perhaps, as a result, there may have been users who were not properly guided to maintain a good atmosphere.

Undoubtedly, it is a challenge for us, and especially for me, to ensure that this forum enjoys good health, where debates can occur in a healthy, moderated, and measured manner. We must strive to achieve a balance between freedom of opinion and respect for this organization and its followers.

To conclude, I want to mention that although I would like to, I am involved in several projects such as the new online platform, the final card database, the remaster, the website, and now this forum.

I cannot dedicate all my time to responding to everyone, and it generates a lot of stress trying to please everyone and reply individually. Therefore, if you permit me, I will not continue providing explanations in this thread for the time being.

Thank you all, and let's hope we can discuss more about decks and matches rather than sad matters like this.

Kodi :D
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Bandobras Took
Rules Wizard
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Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm

Though if you're wondering why I haven't bothered posting much the past few years, this thread may well provide the answer.
The game is flawed, but this does not mean it cannot be loved.
KakitaBen
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:14 am

My two cents.

You have all my support @Kodi, CDavis7M is toxic on the forum and the discord.
Even if he tries to help as a active member of the community, acting like he does is the best way to make new comers run away.
I have talked with peoples who told me that they didn't participate on the forum/discord because of such behavior's.

Thank to all the team for the work.

Ben

L'enfer est pavé de bonnes intentions.
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Theo
Posts: 1393
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:49 pm
Location: Denver, CO

Kodi wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:43 am I have more than enough reasons and evidence, both objective and subjective, and I am confident that I have made the right decision given the repeated negative behavior.

If anyone genuinely believes that this decision was deliberate and without foundation, I invite them to send me a private message, and I will explain the reasons more clearly without engaging in an endless discussion.
And so the lion invites the frightened lamb to bring its questions for discussion into its private cave.

To be clear, I am not questioning the existence of posts of CDavis7M that have been out of alignment with fostering the kind of community *I* (or others) would want here. I know you know this, because you in fact obscured my post about the him (perhaps accidentally) making a veiled death threat against me. But other than that, what evidence can you point to that he violated the forum terms of use as they existed at the time? Your (apparently unilateral) move to an IP ban appears (1) unequal punishment for previous, amended behavior, (2) retributive, (3) creating a more hostile environment than I think this community deserves. To create the kind of community I would want, I think this conversation needs to be had publicly.

On (2), here is the last post by CDavis7M prior to his banning, which would be a natural place to look for newcomers to the community that read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=128&t=4801&p=41197#p41197
That is, pointing out how an elected Council Member violated the forum rules (and, in my opinion, common internet decency), as well as hyper-aggressively overreacted to an impersonal discussion of metagame theory. So did he get IP banned for this?

In my opinion, there absolutely needs to better moderation, but who watches the watchers? You need to hold yourselves accountable for your own negative impacts on the community. Give some modicum of appearance that you are striving for better, even *if* you are actually here to push your own agenda. I believe your impression is that your voter base doesn't care, and so you don't really care about burning down the rest of the community (in fact, it supports you getting a dominant voter base!). But this global community, I think, deserves more.

And I don't mean you Kodi personally need to be accountable for doing everything, I mean the elected Council on which you, Kodi, are supposed to be teaming. If you didn't unilaterally make this decision, you would have a team of people who could handle the transparent communications that you underprioritize.
One [online community] with hammer and chisel might mar more than they make...
All players are welcome at Meduseld! https://theo-donly.github.io/MECCG/
Glorfindel2
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:54 pm

Come on guys.
Let's stay together and be nice to each other.
This forum is about a so called dead TCG which is kept alive for almost 25 years now and this is an incredible success of all of us right?
I am very sad to see someone is banned from the community because I think everybody counts and contributes in his own way?
Cheers Sebastian
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Kodi
Council Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 12:22 pm

It seems that we will never finish... Let me answer you in parts.
Theo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:05 pm And so the lion invites the frightened lamb to bring its questions for discussion into its private cave.
For me:
Lion=Theo
Lamb=Kodi
Cave=Forum

All is very relative :roll:
Theo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:05 pm To be clear, I am not questioning the existence of posts of CDavis7M that have been out of alignment with fostering the kind of community *I* (or others) would want here. I know you know this, because you in fact obscured my post about the him (perhaps accidentally) making a veiled death threat against me.
It's just an example of toxic behavior, but I have more examples that I don't want to publish. Not my style.

It seems that there are a few more users in this thread who have detected these behaviors.

I believe I have every right to apply a measure if I see that the behavior is not appropriate. And if you don't share my point of view, I may not be able to convince you otherwise.
Theo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:05 pm But other than that, what evidence can you point to that he violated the forum terms of use as they existed at the time?
Kodi wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 8:37 pm While CDavis7M may not have violated the rules of usage on this specific occasion...
I have already explained that it is not for having violated a specific rule, but for repeated misbehavior: condescension, sarcasm, mockery, disrespect, smartass, contempt....

I think this is not a judgment.

as they existed at the time: There has always been a rule, written or unwritten, that prohibits behavior like the one indicated.
Theo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:05 pm Your (apparently unilateral)...
It is not unilateral, but it is true that there has not yet been a final meeting with all CoE members to make a final vote.
Theo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:05 pm ...move to an IP ban appears
To remove an IP ban you just have to restart the router. I think CDavis7M will have already done it, but I've unbanned the IP anyway so he can read us.
Theo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:05 pm (1) unequal punishment for previous, amended behavior,
The punishment has not yet been imposed. It is simply an indefinite ban = 1 day? 1 year?
Theo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:05 pm (3) creating a more hostile environment than I think this community deserves.
The hostile environment already existed before me and I think these debates don't help either. The CoE and I personally will try to bring back the good vibes to this forum.
Theo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:05 pm To create the kind of community I would want, I think this conversation needs to be had publicly.
I prefer to talk about it privately, but if you insist I will say it publicly.

Theo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:05 pm On (2), here is the last post by CDavis7M prior to his banning, which would be a natural place to look for newcomers to the community that read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=128&t=4801&p=41197#p41197
That is, pointing out how an elected Council Member violated the forum rules (and, in my opinion, common internet decency), as well as hyper-aggressively overreacted to an impersonal discussion of metagame theory. So did he get IP banned for this?
fisilva1 wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 1:21 pm
This is your first warning.

No ironic or condescending phrases, please.
CDavis7M wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 6:56 pm
Also, Felipe, thank you for introducing yourself.
If a moderator, a member of the Public Relations Committee, has given you the first warning and asks you not to be ironic , it doesn't seem very appropriate to start the sentence like that. However, obviously, he hasn't been banned for this sentence.

By the way, it didn't seem to matter to him as much about internet decency when his "alleged name" was used in other contexts of this forum.

Theo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:05 pm In my opinion, there absolutely needs to better moderation, but who watches the watchers?
It seems that you :shock:
Theo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:05 pm You need to hold yourselves accountable for your own negative impacts on the community. Give some modicum of appearance that you are striving for better, even *if* you are actually here to push your own agenda. I believe your impression is that your voter base doesn't care, and so you don't really care about burning down the rest of the community (in fact, it supports you getting a dominant voter base!). But this global community, I think, deserves more.

And I don't mean you Kodi personally need to be accountable for doing everything, I mean the elected Council on which you, Kodi, are supposed to be teaming. If you didn't unilaterally make this decision, you would have a team of people who could handle the transparent communications that you underprioritize.
The CoE is a team, but each member is responsible for a different part. The idea is not to ignore those who don't think like us, but to understand that since we are the ones dealing with this, we should lead in the way we believe and know best. It's not easy to step up and let people criticize you, but I do it because I think it's the right thing to do.

I know many CoE colleagues support me and think like me. I also know that there are colleagues who don't think like me. And that's precisely why we will talk to reach a resolution as soon as possible.

I know you're eager to respond and continue the debate, but I think it would be useful now to let time pass and that the CoE finish discussing it.

Kodi :D
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Manuel
Council Chairman
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:31 am

I just want to add a couple things here:

First of all, Kodi has all my support and respect for being someone who is actually doing things for the community. And I'm not only talking about this user ban, I'm mainly talking about the immense amount of hours he's devoting to this game and the community:

Meccg.com website
New online playing platform
Updating and Maintaining this forum
Helping with the rules questions present in the ROC
Assisting other CoE members


... and I'm sure I'm missing a lot of stuff he's working on right now, or stuff he's already done. Heck, he even managed to get Ichabod's contact and got in touch with him to ask certain rules questions.

I guess the world community already knows that in the Spanish community we went from no online tournaments, to 20-30-40 player tournaments in about a year. And who was the engine behind that? Kodi.

Considering the fact that any member of the CoE is getting absolutely nothing in return for his labour, I have the impression that there are certain individuals who put anything we say or do under a scrutiny that I find too hard, and frankly underwhelming for us to continue doing anything happily. Here I can see a reason why the previous CoE members faded away: they were not getting enough respect nor credit. But guess what, at least some of these new CoE members are not going to fall in the same trap. But that necessarily means we have to assume not everyone will agree with us, and can't waste our efforts on those who will never agree with what we do. Unless of course that is an important part of the community, but so far I've noticed it's only certain individuals that speak too loud or too often. They don't represent the community, although they act like they do. Or maybe I'm wrong, I don't know; someone please tell me if I'm wrong :)

At the end of the day, we all have jobs, families, etc, so we have a limited amount of time to devote to this game. We shouldn't waste it on endless debates. CDavis behavior is toxic, you know that, we know that. He's an expert moving in the grey zone of what's legal and what's not. Of course his contributions have been very useful, but still, he's been taking away too much attention and other people's time for being only one person. His behaviour has been repeatedly scaring away users from this forum. And yes, I can see that it would be great to have an open and well-structured debate about this, but then we would we wasting our precious time on a single person's behaviour, instead of developing game projects. And I have a lot of work to do.

Having said all this, the CoE is going to have a new meeting this month and we'll be putting this User's Ban decision under scrutiny. We'll deliver and decide what's best and how to structure and execute the decision. But I insist on the importance of understanding the context of CoE members and other contributors before criticizing their actions.
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tyhjaarpa
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:37 pm
Location: Finland

Manuel wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:40 am I just want to add a couple things here:

First of all, Kodi has all my support and respect for being someone who is actually doing things for the community. And I'm not only talking about this user ban, I'm mainly talking about the immense amount of hours he's devoting to this game and the community:

Meccg.com website
New online playing platform
Updating and Maintaining this forum
Helping with the rules questions present in the ROC
Assisting other CoE members


... and I'm sure I'm missing a lot of stuff he's working on right now, or stuff he's already done. Heck, he even managed to get Ichabod's contact and got in touch with him to ask certain rules questions.

I guess the world community already knows that in the Spanish community we went from no online tournaments, to 20-30-40 player tournaments in about a year. And who was the engine behind that? Kodi.

Considering the fact that any member of the CoE is getting absolutely nothing in return for his labour, I have the impression that there are certain individuals who put anything we say or do under a scrutiny that I find too hard, and frankly underwhelming for us to continue doing anything happily. Here I can see a reason why the previous CoE members faded away: they were not getting enough respect nor credit. But guess what, at least some of these CoE members are not going to fall in the same trap. But that necessarily means we have to assume not everyone will agree with us, and can't waste our efforts on those who will never agree with what we do. Unless of course that is an important part of the community, but so far I've noticed it's only certain individuals that speak too loud or too often. They don't represent the community, although they act like they do. Or maybe I'm wrong, I don't know; someone please tell me if I'm wrong :)

At the end of the day, we all have jobs, families, etc, so we have a limited amount of time to devote to this game. We shouldn't waste it on endless debates. CDavis behavior is toxic, you know that, we know that. He's an expert moving in the grey zone of what's legal and what's not. Of course his contributions have been very useful, but still, he's been taking away too much attention and other people's time for being only one person. His behaviour has been repeatedly scaring away users from this forum. And yes, I can see that it would be great to have an open and well-structured debate about this, but then we would we wasting our precious time on a single person's behaviour, instead of developing game projects. And I have a lot of work to do.

Having said all this, the CoE is going to have a new meeting this month and we'll be putting this User's Ban decision under scrutiny. We'll deliver and decide what's best and how to structure and execute the decision. But I insist on the importance of understanding the context of CoE members before criticizing their actions.
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Konrad Klar
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Kodi wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:43 am The punishment has not yet been imposed. It is simply an indefinite ban = 1 day? 1 year?
Will be it ever defined?
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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Kodi
Council Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 12:22 pm

Forgive me for not mentioning it in this topic. We discussed it a few weeks ago in the latest CoE meeting and posted it in another topic. Here's the decision that was made. Thank you, Konrad, for bringing it up in this thread.
DamienX207 wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:10 pm We had an in-depth discussion about the banning of CDavis7M from the forum. We concluded that the ban will be upheld for 3 months, and then at our next meeting the Council will reevaluate CDavis7M’s behavior on other platforms to consider lifting the forum ban.
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mathieuvart
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For what I saw, CDavis7M is on the Official ICE Discord and does not behave like he was in the meccg discord.
Flyingpenut
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2023 2:39 am

Hello everyone,

I am brand new to this community and as such I want to be complete upfront about my ignorance to the issue of this thread as well as the forum in general. I do love the game and want to personally thank this community as well as the council for all the hard work and dedication put in. I also want to specifically thank you Kodi for the very impressive work that you have done for this community.

However I must whole heartedly disagree with banning members. The first step toward slavery is censorship. While a seemly insignificant gaming forum may seem unimportant in the grand scheme of things ever little bit of censorship furthers the momentum of the whole. Our world is becoming more and more opinionated and in return censored wether through direct censorship ie banning or through public outcry and a push to impose consequences. I’m sure this post will receive its fair share of outcry haha. Not only do I not mind the outcry this post may receive but I welcome it. By others being able to express their views, even if they are not popular or some deem them “offensive,” we all are exposed to those differing ideas and are given the opportunity to choose for ourselves. When we are censored the entire community loses because we are never given the opportunity to hear dissenting views. Remember the terms “wrong,” “offensive,” “disruptive,” are all matters of opinion. I’m sure there are many views you have Kodi that people feel are wrong or offensive but you are still entitled to those views. Similarly words like “mean,” and “hostile,” are also subjective and are again opinions of those who feel that way. We must be more open minded as a society and not shut down or ban anyone that says something we don’t like or says it in a way we don’t like. If we continue down this path we lose our ability to hear differing views and to make our own choices. The further we go down this path the closer to slavery we become.
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