Joes letter part 5:PRODUCT AVAILABLITY,COMMUNITY&ADVERTI

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thorondor
Ex Council Chairman
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Location: salzburg, austria
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I have split up joes letter in order to get a better overview and make it easier to respond directly to specific topics. There is a lot substantial content in this document, so lets take this opporntunity, exchange our ideas and work for a better future of MECCG.
The original post can be found here: http://www.councilofelrond.org/forum/vi ... .php?t=907
This thread deals with
Frodo wrote: Problem area 2: New players
How do we reach out to them? Next, how do we continue to make them feel invited, and want to remain, so the game can grow?

B- PRODUCT AVAILABLITY, COMMUNITY AND ADVERTISING

Okay, let’s say we explained it well enough to some friends we’ve met, and—wow!—they like the game! Not only that, the rulesbooks have been streamlined and—double wow!—they say they can actually understand them. Now, the players greedily ask us… so where’s the CARDS?

This is probably the single-greatest challenge our game presents us. We can streamline or simplify the rules, we can develop demos all day, we can advertise like professionals—but there’s the product?? How do I play this game?

Solutions: These are only attempts at solutions, some ideas to keep in mind, and finally, some very controversial ideas I will propose:
i. We must be give away SOME product at tournaments to new players. In addition, we must be able to SELL a little to new players who want more—then redirect them to a stable source/website where they can get the rest.
ii. I fear that the above is getting harder and harder. Therefore, I offer an idea for discussion: effective immediately, no new sealed product is to be given out as prizes at tournaments, EXCEPT where the player receiving the prize is a new player.
iii. Are we comfortable existing completely as an ONLINE game only? Because if we run out of product, this is what will happen, at least for new players who cannot gain access to the cards the collecting players have. Remember, I am speaking about a scenario in which we are really receiving dozens of new players a year, thanks to the efforts of projects I’ve already described.

Even hoarding the prize support will not solve all of our product problems, though it may delay Judgment Day a few more years. Therefore, I ask that we give serious thought to another long-debated solution: reprinting all of the cards (illegally). Or else, provide the knowledge and the methods so that players can print them themselves. Printing technology is getting cheaper and cheaper. Providing such methods—for example, 9 card image sheets hosted on a server—would be legal because we are not printing the cards, we are displaying the images/pieces of this game in order to give a perusable library. Players would be choosing to do the illegal actions.

Even before we reprint the whole set, there is perhaps a more pressing issue: the challenge decks. Players who reach level 2 will want their own set of decks, or at least a few. But the supply of decks is nearly exhausted. This is a very real threat. I would suggest that as a test, the community considers “broadcasting” the challenge decks card images on a server somewhere, in a 9 card sheets that would fit on a standard piece of paper (both American letter and euro A4). On the famous game site boardgamegeek.com, our wonderful MECCG is ranked the 3rd best game of all time… not just out of a pool of card games, but a pool of hundreds of all games, even board games! This is quite a compliment. Some of the posted comments there mention the difficulty with getting into the game, and stress the importance of reprinting the challenge decks. This will greatly expand our ability to meet the growing demand for cards.

Proxies: Finally, I offer one other idea that I’m sure will also prove controversial. Current players, but especially new players, will feel a certain unfairness in the difficulty of obtaining particular hard-to-find cards, and this will only add to their frustration with tournament-level play. I believe that the GCCG model, where everyone can play with whatever card they like, has proved to be successful: you don’t see any players anymore claiming that you should actually “own” the GCCG card to be playing in GCCG tournaments, etc. Still some players in the real world (those with the cards, of course) might feel that having the hard-to-find cards should count for some kind of detriment when composing a deck for tournaments, otherwise the whole collecting market could change too much.

Solution: I propose a middle-of-the-road solution, which is thus. All Worlds, nationals, and local tournaments should implement the “at least one-of-a-kind proxy rule.” This rule states that: for any card that you have multiple copies of in deck and sideboard, one of these copies must be original, but all other copies can be proxied. For example, if I had three Longbottom Leafs in my deck, one of these must tbe the original, and the others may be proxied. If I had a unique card in my deck, it would have to be the original. This solution also prevents a negative situation where one player needs to know the text of the card but the proxy does not have the text (just the title); by my suggested rule, the original card can now always be hunted for.

Community and Advertising:
Okay, got the rules, got the cards. Got game. Where’s the COMMUNITY?

I have to say, our web forums are amazing. Never is there a better time for small communities to thrive then now. Without the miracle of electronic communication that these forums provide, and the equally great miracle of GCCG, our game would have died long ago, like any esoteric hobby that requires a platform to keep it going. A strong community is needed to attract new players to the game, and if we keep working on the community ideas I previously mentioned (newsletter, bigger GCCG… larger tournament structure, newer and more inviting WORLDS) we should be fine.

But we still need to streamline our approach to advertising the game. Also at the American GenCon convention, our players saw many attendees peeping at the dealer tables asking dealers if they “had any middle-earth cards for sale?” These questions came from convention attendees unknown to us. Luckily, some of us had business cards I had hastily developed with the game’s basic contact information—COE website address, description of newsletters, etc.—and we ended up giving out all 20 business cards to random people we met at the convention!

Convention Advertising:
So here’s where I ask some questions. Are big conventions merely an American thing, or do they happen a lot in Europe and South America as well? Do our European and South American players go to these conventions? I ask because I can’t think of a single, better venue for advertising our game than a gaming convention.

Use the Conference Programs: Think about it: there’s a program guide listing hundreds of games which thousands of players are scanning, and suddenly there’s a line about “Middle-earth” and “Tolkien.” If you’re a fantasy buff, who wouldn’t be curious? Also, if allowed, in that two-line description you get to advertise your event, you can use that opportunity to list the COE website address. Now of the thousands of people who have scanned your information but don’t actually show up to the event, maybe a few dozen will look up our game.

Use the Conference Goodie Bags: Conventions also give out bags of free stuff that different game companies provide. What if we gave out free common middle-earth cards, that have a sticker of text explaining that we’re doing events, and listing our website address?

Use your Own Body: Additionally, I started wearing some homemade Middle-earth t-shirts a few years ago to cons, and I was really surprised to see how many players just walked up to me because they recognized the giant burning eye symbol, and asked, “Hey, is that game still going? I have all these cards I bought… how do I find out more information?” In fact I was so convinced it was the EYE that attracted them that this year, even when I had on a normal shirt, I taped real MECCG cards to my left and right sleeves (and backside) with the burning eye facing out. I looked like some kind of game-geek-freak (who didn’t??), but hey, I had three to five people approach me every day about the game!

Create Business Cards: Like I said, we should create a standardized business card, targeted either to people who know about the game and left, or else to people who don’t know anything about the game (great for posting in random game stores in your city in case you don’t attend conferences), or probably two different cards entirely. If even one or two people respond, that’s huge. I will post my example later. Most descriptions of MECCG should target newbies, so we need to think about what language they want to hear.

Advertising through the COE Treasury:
We have a COE Treasury. It has money in it. Highly aesthetic prize support is one good solution for the money, but another solution, a solution that is appropriate for the games’ leadership to implement and share amongst themselves, is to use it for advertising. For example: at conferences I have seen thin, aluminum-cased tripod devices that hold giant, slick, glossy-cloth posters about the size of a person. They are used to advertise games and game companies, and with such huge images, such as characters from Game of Thrones or Warcraft, they are tremendously eye-catching and beautiful! Wouldn’t THAT be an absolutely fabulous use of the COE funds? Ah but what about image rights, you ask? I suggest two tracks to explore: analyze the fair use law to see if we can simply make a collage that uses parts of different images (e.g., the heads of characters) into one new image, or else just use the art of artists who have graciously agreed to allow anyone and everyone to reprint their art for non-commerical purposes (such as Ted Nasmith). In the Nasmith example, we could take his minion image of Bag End, for instance, blow it up on a giant poster, and have the middle-earth logo underneath (so we wouldn’t use the actual Bag End card template). Even just the burning eye, massively sized, would be great. Does anyone know of a company that makes such rollable, cloth posters?
thorondor
Ex Council Chairman
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: salzburg, austria
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card availability

right now there is still some stuff left. ebay is still a good source. also the online shops like eaglecard or gwaihir have some supply left. pity that patrick had to shut his shop (any news if/when he will reopen???).

but joe is right: its a matter of a few years, then all sealed english stuff (especially TW) will be gone. and we already have a lack of CHdecks. so the situation IS serious.
i already started not to give away sealed stuff as prizes at Lure (except where i know there is still plenty of stuff left, such as italian or some spanish stuff).
and i started the so called Pool Sealed. this contains 3 boxes of cards, that exactly reflects the distribution of c/uc/r cards, haveing a card pool available for up to 24 players. you can find more info about this here:
http://www.meccg-berlin.de/files/rules/ ... led_en.pdf
so this is just the same as real sealed deck, and its MUCH cheaper as well. only con: it takes away the typical sealed feeling when opening booster.
and i will reduce regular sealed deck with english cards drastically!! for many playing with foreign cards is a more enjoyable experience anyway.
thorondor
Ex Council Chairman
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: salzburg, austria
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proxies:

i am totally in favour of allowing proxies! for me MECCG is no CCG any longer, since availability is no longer given. its almost impossible to get balrog nowadays. MEAS will be next. and there are many crucial cards in those sets.
so in order to care for a scene where every player has the same chances, proxies are needed.
joes suggestions is fine (at least one card must be original of each card), but in my opinion not enough. it still doesnt help the newb who has no longbottom leaf. so i´d like to go one step further ...

i got an idea: the COE is producing COE approved cards, only for such as Longbottom Leaf, Beorning Skinchangers, ...
this could be a well-produced proxy with a COE stamp on it. these cards are given away for free to new players, just for attending any tourneys or events. only one copy per player. this COE approved proxy counts as an original card, so he can proxy copy 2 or 3 for himself.

advantage: the COE is offering a special service for new players. good quality proxies. it shouldnt affect the collecting market too much. and i think it should be legal as well.
Last edited by thorondor on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
thorondor
Ex Council Chairman
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: salzburg, austria
Contact:

Challenge Decks:

the need of these decks is out of question. and they are almost gone.
offering them for some free download would be a good solution. (this is legal, isnt it?)

could this be done at the COE site?
thorondor
Ex Council Chairman
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: salzburg, austria
Contact:

advertising:

business cards is a very good idea! its not enough to demo, give a away some cards, and then loosing contact.
lets have them downloadable at the COE site, so everybody who is demoing can equip himself with those cards.

(i always did it more "aggressively". when doing a demo, i asked them to enter in a list, including email address)

besides going to convention, i suggest to contact the Tolkien Societies. there is a huge potential of players. though most of them will never come to tournaments.
i have done this several times, with ambivalent success: all liked the cards very much! and they liked to play with them as well. but many didnt like the mass of rules and complexity. so streamlining the rules would help a lot here!
thorondor
Ex Council Chairman
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: salzburg, austria
Contact:

communication:

a few years ago we started the Global Playerlist. for me this was one of the most needed things. however, it doesnt work good enough imo.

players see, that there are other players in there region, but they cannot get in contact with them. so its useless inorder to establish contacts between players. (sometimes i have been asked if i as a a mod can do that. of course i can, but thats way too complicated).

my suggestion: players - after been regsitered by a mod - have to log in to the members area and then are enabled to see the email addresses. chance of abuse is minimal. of course if players dont want to show their address or prefer a phone call, there should be an option for that.

newletter:
there is joes excellent in-depth newsletter. and sometimes i am sending out some actual news&infos&announcements.
however, i face the same problem all the time: there is my personal list that i manage since many years now. there is the global player list, that is managed by all the COE mods. there is the MECCG silent tower-newsgroup managed by noone. there are the forums at the COE and meccg.net. and all those local forums.
if a message is sent out, we should make sure, that everybody, who might be interested in it, really gets it. and at least try to avoid that people get it thrice.

it would help, if only one mod is responsible for registration at the COE site. and i would like to volunteer for this ;-) that would enable me to make sure, that every player gets the news, and at least player from my personal list and from the COE list dont get it twice.
10 years ago, the egroup was very active, but nowadays it has almost died. we got forums, that work MUCH better. so in order to streamline and keep things easy i suggest to shut it down.
then, i suggest to start a thread in the 2 big forums that publish any news. there ARE people, who dont want to be on a mailing list, so they can get their info there.
marcos
Council Member
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:41 pm
Location: Córdoba, Argentina

thorondor wrote:Challenge Decks:

the need of these decks is out of question. and they are almost gone.
offering them for some free download would be a good solution. (this is legal, isnt it?)

could this be done at the COE site?
what about if collectors who has tons of extra cards starts making challenge decks with exactly the same card lists??? I think that the rares in there arent very hard, maybe the only "real" problem making such decks is the lack of fixed LE cards...
proxies:

i am totally in favour of allowing proxies! for me MECCG is no CCG any longer, since availability is no longer given. its almost impossible to get balrog nowadays. MEAS will be next. and there are many crucial cards in those sets.
so in order to care for a scene where every player has the same chances, proxies are needed.
joes suggestions is fine (at least one card must be original of each card), but in my opinion not enough. it still doesnt help the newb who has no longbottom leaf. so i´d like to go one step further ...

i got an idea: the COE is producing COE approved cards, only for such as Longbottom Leaf, Beorning Skinchangers, ...
this could be a well-produced proxy with a COE stamp on it. these cards are given away for free to new players, just for attending any tourneys or events. only one copy per player. this COE approved proxy counts as an original card, so he can proxy copy 2 or 3 for himself.

advantage: the COE is offering a special service for new players. good quality proxies. it shouldnt affect the collecting market too much. and i think it should be legal as well.
i like this idea, anyways, i think most of us plays online and is used to a meta-game where everyone has access to every card so why not doing the same in real life tourneys? Maybe, like i readed in spanish forum, some kind of special award can be given to those who doesnt use proxies (just like in gccg where you get a free promo)
card availability

right now there is still some stuff left. ebay is still a good source. also the online shops like eaglecard or gwaihir have some supply left. pity that patrick had to shut his shop (any news if/when he will reopen???).

but joe is right: its a matter of a few years, then all sealed english stuff (especially TW) will be gone. and we already have a lack of CHdecks. so the situation IS serious.
i already started not to give away sealed stuff as prizes at Lure (except where i know there is still plenty of stuff left, such as italian or some spanish stuff).
and i started the so called Pool Sealed. this contains 3 boxes of cards, that exactly reflects the distribution of c/uc/r cards, haveing a card pool available for up to 24 players. you can find more info about this here:
http://www.meccg-berlin.de/files/rules/ ... led_en.pdf
so this is just the same as real sealed deck, and its MUCH cheaper as well. only con: it takes away the typical sealed feeling when opening booster.
and i will reduce regular sealed deck with english cards drastically!! for many playing with foreign cards is a more enjoyable experience anyway
I really like the idea of pool sealed, it is similar to a booster draft format wich cant be done in a game like this, but very well adapted :)
i also think that card availability is directly relationed with that proxies thing, so i still agree with the idea of CoE's approved cards and the idea of giving special awards to those who dont run proxies.
Alter Tuk
Ex Council Member
Posts: 453
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Germany

Another possibility would be pirate prints of whole sets. This is not so expensive as many may think. Take 1.000 - 2.000 euro and you can print plenty of METB sets. I once talked to some printers but I dont remember the figures. According to german law it`s not illegal as long you own one original card and I can´t see any possible suitors.

My personal oppinion: Allow proxies in any way. Let collectors collect, but let players play! As this certain industry is (almost) dead we need not to stay slaves to them anymore.
[url=http://gccg.sourceforge.net/]Come to GCCG or die a lonely death.[/url]
sly southerner
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:57 am

Alter Tuk wrote:Another possibility would be pirate prints of whole sets. This is not so expensive as many may think. Take 1.000 - 2.000 euro and you can print plenty of METB sets. I once talked to some printers but I dont remember the figures. According to german law it`s not illegal as long you own one original card and I can´t see any possible suitors.

.... Let collectors collect, but let players play! As this certain industry is (almost) dead we need not to stay slaves to them anymore.
Agree completely.
They should be marked in some small way to make it clear they are copies and sold for the cost of production and postage plus a small profit margin to support the game.
thorondor
Ex Council Chairman
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:53 pm
Location: salzburg, austria
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marcos wrote: what about if collectors who has tons of extra cards starts making challenge decks with exactly the same card lists??? I think that the rares in there arent very hard, maybe the only "real" problem making such decks is the lack of fixed LE cards...
if language wont matter too much (tough i think it does, since we are talking about newbs), there is plenty of german LE fixed. but at least one copy of the ringwraiths should be an english version.
most of the rares are no problem, however there is an assassin and fatty bolger - to name just the most problematic.
of course we could replace the rares with some good c/uc cards and issues a sort of COE approved peasant version of the CH decks.
but if change is needed, maybe a total relaunch of the CH decks would be more appropriate. after all especially the minion decks are not ballanced.
marcos wrote: I really like the idea of pool sealed, it is similar to a booster draft format wich cant be done in a game like this, but very well adapted :)
this pool sealed tries to simulate real sealed deck as muc as possible.
another possiblity would be a sealed cube (a term used in other CCGs). here the pool of cards is preconstructed and avoids cards that wont be playable.
advantage: no useless cards and better balance.
Bruce
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Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Rome, Italy

Any form of sealed tourney which doesn't require new sealed products is welcomed and strongly needed: reserves of sealed products will run out one day or another, and we'd better think in advance to it. A system which would grant any player with at least one source of MPs for every cathegory (chars, allies, items, factions) would be a good thing. As soon as I get a decent idea, I'll post something. :)

I agree with printing facsimile cards with the CoE brand: they wouldn't be fakes, but they'd be allowed into tourneys as well: a home-made proxy could differ from an official card as far as size/weight is concerned, even though it's not intentionally made so that it is in some way recognizable when face-down. The CoE would supervise the quality standard of these proxies. Should the project be implemented, I'd suggest printing whole playsets instead of just the most wanted singles, e.g. a MEBA set with 3 copies of each non-unique card and 1 copy of each non-avatar unique card. Playsets ranging from METW to MEBA would be very useful for newbies: they would have a reliable, relatively cheap and always available source for cards. Many potential players are kept away from MECCG since they're not familiar with ebay, or they just don't want to invest a lot of time into searching through auctions and trying to win them, with the constant uncertainty of bidding too much for what they're getting. After all, they're buying cards (or trying to do it) for a game that they never played and they don't even know if they're going to like. They just need the chance to give the game a shot with an affordable investment.

The key is of course the financial aspect: these "CoE sanctioned proxies" should be printed at a cost which would make them affordable. I hope somebody can shed some light on the technical aspects, since I'm pretty ignorant in this regard, honestly. :(

Naturally, if playsets made of official proxies can be printed, the same applies to the challenge decks, though I think that it is not necessary to stick to the 10 ICE's challenge decks: pre-constructed newbie-friendly and easy to use decks would be fine. They could also be "rationalized" versions of the 10 challenge decks, with a few modifications to the deck list in order to make them a little more balanced and efficient. Some challenge decks are really unbalanced, especially the minion ones. E.g. some CDs have a starting company with 0 unused GI: I don't think it's the best way to teach a newbie how to play MECCG. :)
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Nerdmeetsyou
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Are you realy shure you could print proxy cards without breaking the law?

even though the company is dead.... and there might not be any claims from the game itself....
there are artists for example who provided the pictures once.... and would have to get their share or somehting like that...
Jose-san
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Location: Valencia, Spain

BoderHamster wrote:Are you realy shure you could print proxy cards without breaking the law?
AFAIK, you can make print all the proxies you want for personal use. You only break the law if you sell them.
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Nerdmeetsyou
Posts: 667
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:30 pm

yeah but that's what we would have to do to distribute them among the players....
at least on a no profit basis.... but even that is illegal.

How should it work any other way???
what is your plan exactly?
Bruce
Ex Council Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Rome, Italy

The issue of the copyright for cards' pictures actually could be a problem, but as I said I have no deep knowledge of the technical aspects, neither as far as printing is concerned, nor as far as legal issues are.

Anyway, artists could be contacted by the CoE and asked for permission to print cards they made the picture for. I think most of them wouldn't ask for high royalties, especially if it were made clear that the cards would be sold at the printing and delivering cost, i.e. for no profit. Many internet sites dedicated to MECCG or to JRR Tolkien's works show pictures made by artists who gave permission to use them (notice that these sites are usually made by fans for no profit), then I guess some similar request could be made for the cards to be reprinted.

If some artist should request too much, I think alternative solutions could be found, for example the CoE could commission new pictures to be used for its official proxies. They could be commissioned to some young illustrator who would do the job to advertise himself/herself at a very low cost. Illustrations could be even commissioned to some non-professional illustrator, in order to cut down the costs even further (an amateur could even be willing to do the job for free).

That's just an example of how solutions to the pictures' copyright issue could be found. I don't know if this idea could work, but anyway I don't think that the issue is impossible to solve.

I don't know if there's somebody holding copyright for the MECCG game itself, and could have some claims in case the CoE distributed official proxies, even if for no profit: AFAIK the problem is unfortunately the mere fact of distributing, not the fact of selling, otherwise giving up any profit margin would be the ultimate solution. Has anyone deeper insights? :?
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