Armory Hoard Bypass

[Bandobras Took]

Only you and your companies can use Armory. You may place any minor items from your hand under Armory during your
organization phase. A character at a Haven [ ] can store a minor item under Armory instead of to your marshalling point pile.
When you otherwise would be allowed to play a minor item from your hand at a Border‐hold [ ], Free‐hold [ ], or Haven [ ],
you may play an item from under Armory instead. If you have at least three minor items under Armory, gain 1 marshalling point.

Unlike just about every other event that deals with minor items (compare Old Cache, Swag, Thing Stolen, War-forges), Armory allows you to place hoard minor items from your hand.

Then, when you would otherwise be allowed to play a minor item from your hand, instead of the *normal* minor item, you can play the item from under Armory -- even if it happens to be a hoard item.

I'm mainly checking to see if I'm missing anything before I go through the bother of building the deck that sprang to mind.

(Note also Under-deeps sites, where the normal minor item is instead replaced by any item -- seems similar.)

[Thuarval]

Unless I misremember, Hoard minor items are only playable at sites with dragon automatic attacks, therefore that is where they can normally be played (and only there). Also, the Site restictions rule out dragon automatic attacks.

[Konrad Klar]

What may be replaced is a source from which an item may be played, not properties of item.
If for any reason some item could not be played at a given site from hand, it also may not be played from under Armory.

[Bandobras Took]

Unless I misremember, Hoard minor items are only playable at sites with dragon automatic attacks, therefore that is where they can normally be played (and only there). Also, the Site restrictions rule out dragon automatic attacks.

The part in parenthesis is the point of contention. This argument is equivalent to saying characters can only come into play at their home site or a haven, so Chance Meeting couldn't possibly work at a Free-hold.

What may be replaced is a source from which an item may be played, not properties of item.
If for any reason some item could not be played at a given site from hand, it also may not be played from under Armory.

That doesn't follow from the card text. ""When you otherwise would be allowed to play a minor item from your hand at a Border‐hold, Free‐hold, or Haven, you may play an item from under Armory instead."

The only requirement for the alternate item play is that the item be placed under Armory.

To read otherwise is to violate the sense of approximately every other card that uses the word "instead."

[Konrad Klar]

If you are allowed to play a card from hand because you are playing minor item at some site, you are not allowed to play any card that you have in hand. Only these minor items that that you may play at the site. Changing a source from hand to Armory does not change a rest.

To read otherwise is to violate the sense of approximately every other card that uses the word "instead."

Examples, please.

[Bandobras Took]

If you are allowed to play a character in the draft, it must have 5 mind and be non-orc/troll.

Thrall of the Voice apparently doesn't change this, even though it says you may play a character with up to six mind instead.

At least according to your argument.

The item under Armory is played *instead* of playing a minor item.

The only restriction on playing such an item is that it have been stored/placed under Armory.

[Bandobras Took]

Example of a card with simple "alternate source" wording:

Rumours of Rings

"You may play a ring special item placed with this card as though it were in your hand." This is an example where normal restrictions would apply.

But Armory has different phrasing.

[Konrad Klar]

If you are allowed to play a character in the draft, it must have 5 mind and be non-orc/troll.

Thrall of the Voice apparently doesn't change this, even though it says you may play a character with up to six mind instead.

At least according to your argument.

Thrall of the Voice changes "which character you may play instead normal" not "from where".
Armory does not say "instead of an item that you are allowed to play from hand at a site you may play an item from under Armory".

Example of a card with simple "alternate source" wording:

Rumours of Rings

"You may play a ring special item placed with this card as though it were in your hand." This is an example where normal restrictions would apply.

Why you consider it "simple"?
Examples of some cards with "different/alternate source" wording:

The White Hand: Glove of Radagast
Rarity: Rare, Precise: R2

Resource: Permanent-event

Unique. Radagast specific. Place this card on Radagast if he is in play. Any non-unique ally with 1 mind (a copy of which he does not already control) is considered playable with Radagast at his site. This ally may be taken from your discard pile or hand. "It was said that the glove was imbued with the Wizard's love of the olvar and the kelvar..."-Kuduk Lore

The Lidless Eye: Swag
Rarity: Uncommon, Precise: U

Resource: Short-event

Playable on a company at a tapped , , or . During the site phase, one or two characters in that company may each tap to take control of a non-unique, non-hoard minor item of the following type: weapon, armor, shield, or helmet. You may take these items from your play deck (reshuffle if used), discard pile, and/or sideboard.

What is special in style "as though it were in your hand"?
If hypothetical effect would forbid a playing of items from other sources than hand then Rumours of Rings could evade this restriction. Or if hypothetical effect would forbid a playing of items from hand than Swag and Armory would not be affected (Glove of Radagast partly).

Monstrosity of Diverse Shape uses yet another style:
"In addition, once per turn the hazard player may use one against the hazard limit to play a Wolf or Animal hazard creature from his discard pile."

[Konrad Klar]

Unless I misremember, Hoard minor items are only playable at sites with dragon automatic attacks, therefore that is where they can normally be played (and only there). Also, the Site restictions rule out dragon automatic attacks.

Hoard minor items may be played at sites that contain hoard (e.g. Framsburg), not necessarily at sites with dragon automatic attacks.

[Bandobras Took]

Thrall of the Voice changes "which character you may play instead normal" not "from where".
Armory does not say "instead of an item that you are allowed to play from hand at a site you may play an item from under Armory".

That is exactly what Armory says.

When you otherwise would be allowed to play a minor item from your hand at a Border‐hold [ ], Free‐hold [ ], or Haven [ ],
you may play an item from under Armory instead

Instead of a minor item from your hand, you may play an item from under Armory. You may do this when you would otherwise be allowed to play a minor item from your hand.

What is special in style "as though it were in your hand"?

Nothing particular. It's the lack of "instead" that concerns us here.

[Konrad Klar]

2+2*2 ≠ (2+2)*2

[Bandobras Took]

I can heartily agree with that, but it has no bearing here. I switched the order only to make more clear what is already there.

Armory does not say "you may play such an item from under Armory instead", it says "you may play an item from under Armory instead."

[Konrad Klar]

Is it "a minor item" from hand vs "any item" from under Armory?
Or is it "a minor item" from hand vs "an item" from under Armory?

When you otherwise would be allowed to play a minor item from your hand are you allowed to play from hand the Emerald of Doriath at Bree?

(Yes. Gloom, Choking Shadows, Dwarven Hoard and, after playing a resource that taps Bree, you are allowed. If Gates of Morning is played after Dwarven Hoard also from under Armory).

[Bandobras Took]

I see no functional difference in this case between the two. Compare Burglary, which specifies "an item *normally playable at the site*."

Gems of Arda also lists further restrictions on "a non-special item."

See also Black Rain, where playing "an item" is permitted regardless of how the item is normally supposed to be played by rule.

[Konrad Klar]

I see no functional difference in this case between the two. Compare Burglary, which specifies "an item *normally playable at the site*."

I do not see how it is related to differences/similarities between Armory and Thrall of the Voice.
Minor item is not normally playable at hero Bree, anyway player may be allowed to play it in some cases at Bree.

Gems of Arda also lists further restrictions on "a non-special item."

There is no need to restrict an item to be of some type if only thing that is altered is a source from which the item may be played. Properties of the item remain unchanged.

If there are doubts whether some animal is a cow or a cat, it may be said that it is very little cow, does not give milk, because it is heifer, and just because this particular cow is very little and does not give milk, someone may mistake it as a cat.