How does Wizard’s River Horses interact with Nazgul permanent-events turned into short-events?In order to contribute to this thread please follow these rules:
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In 2006, CoE Digest #110 got a couple of things wrong when attempting to summarize how Wizard’s River Horses worked, along with In the Name of Mordor and Praise to Elbereth:
There are two important problems with the above digest, the first being that just because the Nazgul wasn’t “played” doesn’t change the fact that it “becomes” (per the cards' text) a short-event at the moment of declaration. CRF 4 underlines this:CoE RULINGS DIGEST #110
29-10-2006 NetRep: Mark Alfano Source
QUERY 1
The interaction of Wizard's River-horses, In the Name of Mordor, and Praise to Elbereth on the one hand and Nazgûl events (Permanent, Long, and Short) on the other hand has been brought into question.
Regarding Wizard's River-horses (WRH), In the Name of Mordor (ItNoM), and Praise to Elbereth (PtE): Since the tapping of a Nazgûl permanent-event turns it into a Short (or Long) event, the Short (or Long) event is never considered “played”. Therefore, if a Nazgûl event is in play (as a short-event, long-event, or permanent-event) then it will be canceled by WRH, ItNoM, or PtE when they resolve.
There are some subtleties in the exact mechanism of each card due to timing and a certain CRF entry:
- Wizard River Horses: Here we must distinguish between two different chains. If a Nazgûl event is tapped in response to the play of WRH, then it will resolve before WRH and thus be unaffected by WRH. If, by contrast, WRH is played in response to the tapping of the Nazgûl event, then WRH will resolve first, and discard (and thereby cancel, since it has not resolved yet) the event.
- In the Name of Mordor: The timing issues for this card are identical to those of WRH.
- Praise to Elbereth: According to the CRF ruling by card title on Praise to Elbereth, Nazgûl events may not be tapped in response to the play of PtE. Therefore, there is only one chain possible for this card (PtE in response to the tapping of the Nazgûl), and so this card is 100% effective.
One final note: tapping a Nazgûl to access one’s sideboard does not turn the Nazgûl into a Short (or Long) event; instead, tapping and discarding the Nazgûl are active conditions of using it in this way. Therefore, if a Nazgûl is tapped for this purpose, it cannot be targetted and cancelled by WRH, ItNoM, or PtE (in the same way that one cannot target Daelomin at Home with Marvels Told in response to his use, or target Baduila with Withdrawn to Mordor in response to his discarding).
In other words, the Nazgul is no longer in play once it is tapped to become a short-event; it actually “becomes” a short-event for all intents and purposes “as if had been played as such from your hand,” and therefore it is no longer in play at the time of response.CRF, Nazgul: If a Nazgûl is tapped to become a short-event as printed on its card, it turns into a short-event upon declaration. At this point, the Nazgûl is a short-event just as if had been played as such from your hand.
The second problem with the digest has to do with the explanation of Wizard’s River-Horses. Unlike the other two cards mentioned, WRH does not “cancel” but instead “discards” all Nazgul events:
The word “discard” appears frequently in card effects, but refers to cards in play unless otherwise specified (e.g. some effects may specify “discard from your hand”, but “in play” is the default). Similarly, short-events are not “discarded” by effects but are rather “canceled”, as demonstrated in ICE Digest #33:Spell. Wizard only. All Nazgul events are discarded or cancels an attack against a Wizard if he is the only character in the company. Wizard makes a corruption check modified by -2.
The other cards mentioned in CoE Digest #110, In the Name of Mordor and Praise to Elebereth, do cancel Nazgul short-events when played in response to a Nazgul being tapped, but specifically because they “cancel” (and also discard from play) any previously declared Nazgul event before it resolves.12. … Wizard's River-horses can stop [tapped Nazgul].
No, you’re thinking of Praise to Elbereth.
And in ICE Digest #531:
Q: I know Marvels Told cannot cancel the effect of a Nazgûl after it has tapped and becomes a short-event. Can Wizard's River-horses played in response to the tapping of a Nazgûl, cancel the effect of the Nazgûl event?
A: I would say no. The event is not in play, or in anyone’s hand. Where is being discarded from? My point is that resolving cards are never discarded elsewhere in the game, and nothing in the rules says their effect would be cancelled even if they were.
For those interested in the related issue of how Khamul the Easterling and Wizard's River Horses interact, our friend and fellow CoE member Mordakai has put up a nice video tutorial explaining the interaction here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU-iPHFdYRQ&t=81s
Note that this partially overturns CoE Digest #110 Q1
