Draft of CoE Digest #200 Q9 - Sacrifice of form and similar cards - Open until August 27th

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Manuel
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In order to contribute to this thread please follow these rules:
1) The thread will be open until August 27th. The usual time is two weeks but having in mind that it's vacation time we've decided to leave it open a bit longer.
2) There will be a maximum of one reply per forum user, and that reply cannot be edited. We want to actively avoid starting "flame wars", so please speak your peace, let others speak their peace, and that's it.
3) After the review period, the ROC will carefully consider everyone's contributions, revise the draft as appropriate, and then the Digest will be published and official.
Does Sacrifice of Form (and other similar cards that discard a character) also discard followers that the Wizard was controlling?

In order to solve this, one must compare several rules and ruling digests.

First, here is the text of Sacrifice of Form for reference:
Spell. Wizard only. All of the strikes from one attack against your Wizard's company fail; +3 to any body checks made to determine of the attack is defeated. Discard the Wizard (i.e., he becomes unrevealed) and any non-item cards he controls. Place any items he controls under this card and keep these off to the side (these items are considered to still be in play). If the Wizard is put back into play, return his items to him and place Sacrifice of Form with him. Wizard receives +1 to his prowess, body, and direct influence. May not be duplicated on a given Wizard.
As we can see, the printed text of Sacrifice of Form itself says to “discard any non-item cards he controls”. CoE Digest #57 ruled that this included followers.
CoE RULINGS DIGEST #57

08-12-2003 NetRep: Chad Martin Source

QUERY 48

Addendum: Sacrifice of Form discards any followers the Wizard has at the time.
However, this ruling seems to be contradicted by the following paragraph in the METW rules, under INFLUENCING (CONTROLLING) A CHARACTER:
If a character directly influencing a follower is removed from play, the follower remains in play and does not immediately count against general influence. However, during your next organization phase, you must discard the follower, place the follower under the control of another character in his company with enough available direct influence, or place the follower under the control of general influence (if enough is available).
And this paragraph is echoed in the CRF, Rulings by Term, Discard:
Whenever a character is discarded, all non-follower cards played with that character are also discarded.
Finally, there are also some questions and answers regarding Sacrifice of Form in the ICE digests:
ICE RULES DIGEST #512

Sacrifice of Form says to discard all non-item cards the Wizard controls. Does this include the Wizard’s followers and cards the followers control?

No, character followers are returned to general influence. They require no general influence to control until your next organization phase.*
ICE RULES DIGEST #10
1. I am still unclear as to what effect Sacrifice of Form or other changes in company composition have on the GI. If I have a wizard controlling a high-mind character, then the wiz sacrifices his form, does the GI immediately reset to take into account the additional requirement of imposed by the former follower?

No. Followers whose controllers disappear outside the organization phase need not be controlled by influence until the next org phase.
This committee’s inclination is to follow ICE’s digests instead of CoE #57, because we believe that ICE’s intent with Sacrifice of Form was not to discard the followers that the wizard is controlling at the moment of sacrifice (per the general METW rules regarding followers whose controlling character leaves play). This also makes more sense from a thematic point of view, and is consistent with the errata given to The Arkenstone (minion).

This rule also works for these other cards that have similar text, whether their text mentions “discard all cards the character controls” or “discard all cards on/played with the character”:

Press-Gang
Treason the Greatest Foe
No Better Use
The Roving Eye
Imprisoned and Mocked
A lie in your eyes
Exile of solitude
The Ring will have but one Master
The Arkenstone (minion) (already errated in CRF)

Therefore, this committee rules that Sacrifice of Form does not discard followers that the wizard is controlling.

Note that this ruling overturns CoE #29 Q1, CoE #57 Q48 and CoE #75 Q7
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dirhaval
Posts: 795
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:39 am

I agree. Mainly on the fact of gaining a benefit of the resource player discarding wounded characters freeing GI or to play a character on the next turn instead of discarding a character. Plus to not gain the benefit of having a wizard arrive safe at a haven with Dreams of Lore, Reforging, Anduril, Hobbit-Lore, Rescue Prisoners, etc... Nice to discard Elrond carrying 8 corruption points to avoid losing six if failing a corruption check.
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