Draft of CoE Digest #200 Q3 - When movement of a company turns out to be illegal - Open until August 27th

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Manuel
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In order to contribute to this thread please follow to the following rules:

1) The thread will be open until August 27th. The usual time is two weeks but having in mind that it's vacation time we've decided to leave it open a bit longer.
2) There will be a maximum of one reply per forum user, and that reply cannot be edited. We want to actively avoid starting "flame wars", so please speak your peace, let others speak their peace, and that's it.
3) After the review period, the ROC will carefully consider everyone's contributions, revise the draft as appropriate, and then the Digest will be published and official.
What happens when a company declares a movement that is legal during the organization phase, but which turns out to be illegal during the movement/hazard phase (when it’s that company’s turn to move)?

Example 1:

Player A is playing a Balrog deck and has two companies. Company 1 consists of The Balrog at Moria. Company 2 consists of Buthrakaur and Umagaur at Dead Marshes. Out He Sprang is in play and the total MP count for that player is 25 during the organization phase. Player A decides to move the Balrog’s company to Thranduil's Halls to pay a visit to a Hero company, and places the location card Thranduil’s Halls face down. Company 2 will move to Buhr Widu, and the site card for that is placed face down, too.

During the movement/hazard phase, Player A decides to move Company 2 first. They meet a chilled elf-lord along the way and Umagaur is killed. Now the total MP count for Player A is 22.

Now it’s the Balrog’s company’s turn. Thranduil’s Halls is revealed as the new site for the company. However, the number of regions between Redhorn Gap and Woodland Realm is four, and with only 22 MPs, Out He Sprang only allows the Balrog’s company to move 3 regions maximum. The movement was legal during the organization phase, but it’s no longer legal during the movement/hazard phase.

Example 2:

Player A has two companies (1 and 2) that declare movement to a new site during the organization Phase. The movementhazard phase begins and Player A decides to resolve Company 1 first, revealing the new site. Player B plays Muster Disperses, and Player A decides to play Await the Advent of Allies in response on one of the characters in Company 2 (which has declared movement, but is not currently moving). At the moment of playing Await the Advent of Allies, that character is not moving and is at a non-haven site, so it’s playable. Await the Advent of Allies resolves and makes that character not count for general influence, which makes Muster Disperses much less dangerous.

Now it is Company 2’s turn. The new site is revealed, but one of the characters in the company now has Await the Advent of Allies on it, and the card says “character cannot move”. Again, this is a situation where the declaration of moving was legal during the organization phase but it turned out to be illegal during the movement/hazard phase.

Whenever this happens, the movement is considered ineffective and the entire company does not move. It is as if the player had not declared movement at all. A movement/hazard phase is still played for that company just like any other company that wasn’t moving.
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Konrad Klar
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Another victims of this ruling in current form will be special movements given by Gwaihir and Eagle-Mounts if after announcing the effects, site/region type will change. It may change also during movement.

There are two types of limitations. One imposed by cards/effects that say where a company may move, and other that say whether a company may move or not.

Effects of Gwaihir, Eagle-Mounts, Out He Sprang, Cram belong to the first category.
Effects of Siege, Await the Advent of Allies, Shifter of Hues belong to the second category.

I think that only second category should be taken into account when determining whether movement that was valid when announced is stil valid when M/H phase of company begins.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
meaglyn
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 7:34 pm

I think the first case makes sense.

I'm less sure about the second. There are other cases where a character can be split into a new company outside of the organization phase. Why would it not be that the one character stays behind while the rest of the company (assuming there are more characters) moves as planned? Await the advent does not prevent a company from moving just one character. In my mind the moving player made a choice and so should be prepared to deal with the effects of now having two smaller companies. I guess what I'm saying is the second case is not "illegal" in my mind if that company had more than the one character.
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Mordakai
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I agree with your decission, although probably is a decission and not a result of chewing the rules (because there is probably a void in the rules regarding this issue). It totally makes sense to me, specially for the game agility.

Case 1 with Out He Sprang may seem a little unfair at first glance (because is not a voluntary direct action of the resource player, as in Case 2), but hey, this is an element that both resource and hazard players must keep in mind. Maybe the resolurce player will try to keep alive all his characters (spending Swift Strokeses or Bold Thrustses that could be useful for the CVCC of the Balrog) to avoid loosing any of them, and in the same line hazard player may risk giving marshalling points or possibilities of trophies just trying to eliminate any character, thus avoiding the Balrog's visit afterwards... Oh man, another thing to keep in mind in games... :|
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...
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Manuel
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Thanks everyone for your contributions.

The ROC will study them carefully and come up with a final digest soon.
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