https://councilofelrond.org/forum/viewt ... 163&t=3325
I will start from explanation of existing state of things (according to my notion), then I will try to justify the notion, then I will try to show what phenomenons may be expected from rulings that try to regulate the game against the notion.
1.
Once applied, results of action caused by passive condition do not depend on presence of a card that caused the action nor on the condition.
Just like results of short-event do not depend on presence in play of the short-event that caused it nor on existence of its active conditions.
A company returned to its site of origin in result of action from Snowstorm, The Way is Shut is not returned to a moving state when the cards leave play.
Characters wounded/discarded/eliminated while facing of attack from Smaug Ahunt do not heal/are not returned to play when Smaug Ahunt leaves play.
Sites tapped in result of action from Long Winter do not untap when Long Winter leaves play, or when their site's site path no longer has at least
![[-me_wi-]](./images/smilies/me_wi.png "Wilderness"){kind=small}
.Ongoing effect is not applied to any object. Rather objects are under the effect as long a card that creates it (and eventually other conditions) is in play. Once the card (and/or other conditions) leave play, the ongoing effect disappears.
Once Fell Winter leaves play all
![[-me_bh-]](./images/smilies/me_bh.png "Border Hold"){kind=small}
lose an additional Wolves AA. Once Fell Winter and/or Doors of Night leave play ![[-me_fd-]](./images/smilies/me_fd.png "Free Domain"){kind=small}
treated as ![[-me_bl-]](./images/smilies/me_bl.png "Border Land"){kind=small}
, treated as are no longer so treated.Modification of faced attacks resulting from cards like Rank upon Rank, Redoubled Force are applied as actions caused by passive condition.
Modification to attributes of characters, allies, items resulting from cards like Clear Skies, Night, Fellowship, Itangast at Home are ongoing effects.
2.
It is ICE's decision that modification of faced attack resulting from Rank upon Rank is applied as result of action (see CRF entry for Ready to his Will).
It allows to assume that the same applies to other cards like Rank upon Rank, Minions Stir, Redoubled Force and so on.
Why to treat modifications to attributes of characters, allies, items, sites, regions resulting from cards like Clear Skies, Night, Fellowship, Itangast at Home, Fell Winter differently?
Unlike faced attacks that exist in play by short time (and later they disappear or, in case of AA, are no longer faced), characters, allies, items, sites, regions exist in play constantly and if to treat them as passive conditions for actions that affect their attributes, the actions would be triggered constantly.
3.
What to expect from rulings that try to regulate game against the notion?
Anything, depending on author. The last things I am expecting are a clarity and a consistency.
Some examples are artificial, crafted by me.
E.g. what if to treat effects of Fell Winter as actions caused by passive conditions, not as ongoing effect?
Fell Winter resolves and in next chain of effects the actions caused by the card are declared.
Action: receives Wolves AA. Passive condition:
.For each
the action is declared, resolves or fizzles (if in meantime site type of former has been changed).What if later Fell Winter will be discarded? If to expect an consistency, the same as for results of other actions caused by passive condition.
Sites still have an additional Wolves AA. Next copy of Fell Winter, the same procedure as above and sites will have next additional Wolves AA.
What if Fell Winter resolves and Doors of Night is in play?
If to treat "Additionally, if Doors of Night is in play, [...]" as actions caused by passive conditions, not as ongoing effect:The Wizards: Fell Winter
Rarity: Common, Precise: CA1
Hazard: Long-event
Environment. Each
for each
the action "treat it as " is declared, for each the action "treat it as " is declared.And it expected that there will be a second pass, because after first pass all
are treated as and become passive conditions for "treat it as ".What if later Fell Winter will be discarded and/or Doors of Night will not be in play?
If to expect an consistency, the same as for results of other actions caused by passive condition.
In proposed ruling for In the Heart of his Realm there is notion that:
"Additionally, any sage at a site in a Dark‐domain or Gorgoroth, or moving with a Dark‐domain or Gorgoroth in his site path, loses his sage skill."
is action caused by passive condition where condition is "sage at a site in a Dark‐domain or Gorgoroth, or moving with a Dark‐domain or Gorgoroth in his site path" and action is "loses his sage skill".
If to treat "Additionally, any sage at a site in a Dark‐domain or Gorgoroth, or moving with a Dark‐domain or Gorgoroth in his site path, loses his sage skill." as ongoing effect it is easy to answer the question "when former sage regains his sage skill?". Once In the Heart of his Realm will leave play and/or when he will leave affect site/lose affected region in his site path".
Inferring from post of DamienX207 in appropriate thread I doubt that autors are caring about compliance with rest of game and comparison to Magic and other games made by DamienX207 make me fear about their sources of inspiration. Seem like making of hybrid of action caused by passive condition and ongoing effect is solution they like. Maybe even in conviction that it is a norm in MECCG.
The game is already complex, that is good thing for some (I like it). Being complex does not mean being complicated.
In my opinion the ruling proposed for Heart of his Realm will make game more complicated for unclear purpose.
EDIT: Removed last sentence.
