Agents At The Audience With Sauron

[Bandobras Took]

Finally, you may reveal any unique marshalling point cards in your hand that match unique cards your opponent has in play.

As I understand it, if you are capable of playing agents as characters, you may reveal them if your opponent has played such agents as hazards in order to reduce their marshalling point total by one.

Can anybody point me to a counterargument?

[Mordakai]

Most probably, ICE should have added "and give him marshaling points" at the end of the last phrase, but as is written right now, I think your point of view is correct

[Konrad Klar]

Finally, you may reveal any unique marshalling point cards in your hand that match unique cards your opponent has in play.

As I understand it, if you are capable of playing agents as characters, you may reveal them if your opponent has played such agents as hazards in order to reduce their marshalling point total by one.

Can anybody point me to a counterargument?

Is there a reason for which it is connected with ability to play an agents in such or another way?
Many hazard long- and permanent-events are marshaling point cards. Player has them in play, like he has hazard agents in play.

To make a things more hopeless:

• Subtract any points that are subtracted from your total, including points from
unique resources your opponent has duplicated in his hand.

CRF does no longer refer to the "marshalling point cards", but to the "unique resources".
(and only "unique" implies that "has duplicated in his hand" does not mean "has two copies in hand")

[Konrad Klar]

BTW.

I need some clarity regarding the targetting of on-guard cards.
Specifically, what is it that they target? And could Tom cancel one?
*** On-guard cards target nothing until they are revealed, then they
target whatever the card would normally target. This means that Tom
Bombadil cannot cancel an on-guard card, because the company is not
moving during the site phase.
--------
*** During the Free Council, your opponent can only reveal unique cards
that are providing you positive MPs in order to lower your MP total by
1. In other words, they cannot reveal a unique hazard agent you have in
play, nor can they reveal a copy of Elrond when you got your copy killed
and are losing MPs for it, etc.

[Bandobras Took]

Well, at least there's a ruling.

Never mind that this is an erratum and should have gone through the CoE . . .

Is there a reason for which it is connected with ability to play an agents in such or another way?

Sure; you don't get MPs from your own hazards.

That's why you can't reveal unique hazards from your hand; they aren't worth MPs to you.

As to the CRF entry, that only mentions a category that is included in the points subtracted, but it does not say it is the only category.

[Konrad Klar]

That's why you can't reveal unique hazards from your hand; they aren't worth MPs to you.

Is Glamdring in my hand worth MPs for me? especially if my opponent has its copy in play?
Granted, eliminated Smaug is not in play, even if its card gives MPs to someone, but the same may be said about stored resources.

[Bandobras Took]

That's why you can't reveal unique hazards from your hand; they aren't worth MPs to you.

Is Glamdring in my hand worth MPs for me? especially if my opponent has its copy in play?

It is more precise to say that your own hazards can't be worth MPs to you.

[Konrad Klar]

It is more precise to say that your own hazards can't be worth MPs to you.

Which in turn does not mean that my own hazard card is not a marshaling point card.

From where the idea that a card that you reveal during Audience must (potentially) give MPs to you?

[Konrad Klar]

The Audience and The Council

All characters and Wizards make corruption checks as outlined in the MELE and METW rules. The winner is the player with the most marshalling points, i.e., the player who has done the most to help his side win.

At the Audience/Council, you may reveal any unique marshalling point cards in your hand that match unique cards that your opponent has in play. You may also reveal any marshalling point cards in your hand that are manifestations of cards that your opponent has in play. Each such revealed card reduces your opponent's marshalling point total by one.

Underline mine.

This opens possibility of revealing hazard manifestations of resource, or of character.

[Bandobras Took]

How can a card that cannot under any circumstances give you MPs be considered a MP card for you?

In a similar way, Geann a-Lisch is a Ruins & Lairs for Balrog players regardless of what is printed on the card because of a rule. Your own hazard cards are not MP cards for you because you cannot gain MPs from them.

[Konrad Klar]

Because some things are not for me, for you, for anyone, but exist independently. Are absolute, not relative.
Situation when a card is in hand, is one of circumstances when the card does not give MPs (to anyone).
Term "marshalling points of cards" is one of such absolute terms.

Otherwise a phrase:

A Wizard player does not receive marshalling points for defeating a creature with an "*" next to its marshalling points or for defeating a detainment attack.

could not be even expressed. (WTF is that ' "*" next to its marshalling points'? If the card cannot give me any marshalling points, then there are not any MPs of card, even such that I could not receive [loop and vicious circle]).

"Geann a-Lisch is for Balrog player" works like (limited to Balrog player's copy) errata. It changes one normal to other normal. Alternative to issuing Balrog version.

Still someone may say that a card that has its marshalling points is not necessarily "marshalling point card".

[Mordakai]

I found this in the MEURD 4.2 thay maybe puts some light in the Agent-revealing-for-marshalling-points-reducing thing:

You may reveal any Unique cards in your hand that match unique cards your opponent
has in play. Such cards reduce your opponent's Marshalling Point total by one. You may
also reveal an opposite alignment manifestation of the Unique entity for the same effect.
● You may only reveal such a card if the entity in question is giving positive MPs
to your opponent.

The underlined statement clearly forbids it.