Thrall of the Voice / Orcs

The place to ask and debate all rules issues related to MECCG.
User avatar
Konrad Klar
Rules Wizard
Posts: 4345
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Wałbrzych, Poland

Bandobras Took wrote:For example, this discussion has led to the surprising conclusion that the reasoning which supports Thrall bringing in Orcs and Trolls might also lead to Fallen Wizards as starting characters.
So what?
It is reason to blame the reasoning?
Maybe instead bleaming the reasoning, make the errata:
- if you do not like the Wizard in FW starting company then change :
STARTING CHARACTERS - Your starting characters (up to 5) may include hero characters and minion characters, but you may not start a character with a mind greater than 5. However, you may not start Orc and Troll characters unless you start with an appropriate stage resource card (e.g. Bad Company).
to
"STARTING CHARACTERS - Your starting characters (up to 5) may include non-Wizard hero characters and non-Ringwraith minion characters, but you may not start a character with a mind greater than 5. However, you may not start Orc and Troll characters unless you start with an appropriate stage resource card (e.g. Bad Company).",

- if you do not want the way in which Thrall of The Voice is working, change "Instead of a normal character, during your organization phase you may bring into play one character (including a minion agent) with up to a 6 mind." to "During your organization phase you may bring into play one character (including a minion agent) with up to a 6 mind." (without "Instead of a normal character" - then you will be able to play Orcs/Trolls with this card only if you are otherwise allowed to do),

- if you do not want to see FW playing Sauron, then add the Sauron to the list of cards that cannot be included in FW deck (as it was done in case of Bade to Rule - if not errata, it would be formally OK to play Bade to Rule for FW),

- finally, if you do not want Lobelia Sackville-Baggins and My Precious in character pool, change:
When constructing a Ringwraith deck, agents are always considered characters.
to the:
"When constructing a Ringwraith deck, agent characters are always considered characters".


Sometimes some cards and rules combinations leads to the unexpected results.
Some of them are disruptive for game, some not.

Bad guy is guy who writes texts carelessly, not guy who read these texts carefully.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
User avatar
Bandobras Took
Rules Wizard
Posts: 3109
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm

I'm not blaming anything. Thorsten was simply wondering why we sometimes discuss things that are already ruled on. :)
The game is flawed, but this does not mean it cannot be loved.
User avatar
Konrad Klar
Rules Wizard
Posts: 4345
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Wałbrzych, Poland

Ok. I was referring to any person that attacks interpretation instead attacking the interpreted text.
Your example was (in my opinion) illustrative: bad text and its good interpretation.
Therefore was quoted by me.

Returning to the ToTV and Orcs/Trolls.
I see this situation similar to the effect of Inner Cunning, that allows agent to start in under-deeps (where he cannot move).
Probably such possibility was not planned by ICE, but it is legal.

I would say that both effects belongs to the same category:
Unexpected, but non-disruptive for game.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
User avatar
Thorsten the Traveller
Ex Council Chairman
Posts: 1764
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Tilburg, Netherlands

Well there is also a NetRep discussion board, but activity there seems very scarce.

In general I don't like discussing NetRep rulings too much, the NetRep must maintain some order of authority, which is difficult enough. Few people however view the special NetRep board, so that's where it should take place I guess.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
User avatar
Konrad Klar
Rules Wizard
Posts: 4345
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Wałbrzych, Poland

To be clear:
In fact my interpretation of "Thrall of the Voice / Orcs" problem is compliant with some NetRep ruling.
But even if it is not a pure coincidence I have not tried to back my opinion with NetRep rulings.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
User avatar
rezwits
Council Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Las Vegas
Contact:

When it comes to WHERE; the answer is WHERE you can "normally play a character" to get the INSTEAD

The normal rules apply for where.

Thrall says you can play an Agent, fine, "normally, play him at his home site, with your avatar", guess what? He can have a 6 mind.

If you don't have an Avatar in play, you can play the 6 mind agent, at his home site. There is NO COMPANY with Thrall it's just out there floating.

The only cards that SEEM to change WHERE you can play a character are A Chance Meeting (ACM), We Have Come to Kill (WhCtK), and Open to the Summons (OttS) (agents). They actually list sites ON THE CARDS...

Open to the Summons says you can play an Agent at your HAVEN.

I don't see, how, when a CARD ABSOLUTLY does NOT HAVE the TEXT/LANGUAGE on the card, it gets dragged thru the mud, and is like a novella.

My understanding is pretty clear.

Thrall of the Voice, DOES NOT HAVE, ACM/WhCTK language, nothing close.
Thrall of the Voice, DOES NOT HAVE, important OttS site specific Language.

Thrall of the Voice, is Thrall of the Voice, it's kind of bad (pun intended) that it got the Bad Company ruling, but that is understandable.

(side note, I read the CoEs #39, #50, #51, #63, #98, and it's just for starting characters and orcs...)

[-me_wh-]-PM-ME-IF
As of 4/3/21 4:03:21
my current rulings foundation is based on:
All of the rules and rulings found in these PDFs at:
https://cardnum.net/rules
If you have other collected rulings that are not
listed please feel free to email them or PM me...
Post Reply

Return to “Rules Questions & Debate (unofficial)”