CRF, Passive Conditions wrote:# Annotation 9: If a card specifies that an action is to occur as a result of some specific passive condition, this action becomes automatically the first action declared in the chain of effects to immediately follow the chain of effects producing the passive condition.
If more than one action is required to be the first action declared in a chain of effects, the player whose turn it is chooses the order in which they are declared. No other actions may be declared in this follow-up chain until the multiple required actions have been declared.
Farmer Maggot is not a required passive condition, it as an optional one. Therefore, its action would only be applied after the action produced by the passive condition of the Wizardhaven has resolved. Unfortunately, this means that the Wizardhaven will have canceled the attack before Farmer Maggot's passive condition can successfully produce the canceled and moving effects.Farmer Maggot wrote:If one of your companies faces an attack while at a site in The Shire, Arthedain, or Cardolan, you may immediately replace its site card with another site card in The Shire, Arthedain, or Cardolan (from your location deck). If your company takes this option, the attack is canceled and this card is discarded.
This annotation if I understand zara correctly (and I think I do) treats the case that a card setting up a passive condition is yet to resolve. Such cases are usually seen in Movement/Hazard Phase, as hazards need to resolve to hit the table. In my case, both Hidden Haven and Farmer Maggot have already resolved => no problem ?!CRF Annotation 9 wrote: If a card specifies that an action is to occur as a result of some specific passive condition, this action becomes automatically the first action declared in the chain of effects to immediately follow the chain of effects producing the passive condition. The passive condition must exist when this resulting action is resolved in its own chain of effects, or the action is canceled. Note that actions in the strike sequence follow a different set of rules.
Now for annotation 10: I do understand the obvious case of somebody running into multiple ahunts and also the advanced stuff by zara with the undead enhancers. But how is it in this cased. Although I did not find any reference to this in the rules, I am inclined to believe that Hidden Haven is an action "required to be the first action declared" in the chain of effects following the play of the first creature.CRF Annotation 10 wrote: If more than one action is required to be the first action declared in a chain of effects, the player whose turn it is chooses the order in which they are declared. No other actions may be declared in this follow-up chain until the multiple required actions have been declared.
I honestly do not understand this. Annotation 10 reads DECLARED and not RESOLVED. As I read it, Hidden Haven is the first action to be declared in the following chain of effects, but Farmer Maggot's effect could be used in response to that. Thus (last in first out) Farmer Maggot can resolve before Hidden Haven does.b_took wrote:Therefore, its action would only be applied after the action produced by the passive condition of the Wizardhaven has resolved.
In my case, erase the "yet again". Its my first attempt to get behind these bastards... I am pretty sure I messed something up, but I still wrote this - hoping that you help me understand passive conditions!b_took wrote:Unless I've completely screwed up passive conditions yet again.
So.http://www.meccg.net/netherlands/meccg/rules/crf/crf-turn.html#combat wrote:@ Between an attacks declaration and the assigning of the strikes there is time for multiple chains of effect. Thus you could for example make two attempts to cancel the attack or your opponent could use Hoarmurath for an extra strike, recycle him and add another strike. [CoE] %
"the chain of effects producing the passive condition" is the chain in which creature/attack card was resolved.If a card specifies that an action is to occur as a result of some specific passive condition, this action becomes automatically the first action declared in the chain of effects to immediately follow the chain of effects producing the passive condition. The passive condition must exist when this resulting action is resolved in its own chain of effects, or the action is canceled. Note that actions in the strike sequence follow a different set of rules.
I would say your understanding of passive condition's stuff is OK.domse wrote:I am pretty sure I messed something up,
This of course is a serious concern I have absolutely no clue about. I guess I will mail this to Mikko then...Bandobras Took wrote:If there is an attack at a Wizardhaven,it will trigger the canceling action of the Wizardhaven. It may, at your option, try to trigger Farmer Maggot.
However, Farmer Maggot is not required to be an action in a chain of effects at all. The canceling of the Wizardhaven must be declared, and if you attempt to declare the canceling action of Farmer Maggot in response to this declaration, it will become the first action in the chain of effects following the chain of effects created by the canceling action of the Wizardhaven.
In other words, I'm not sure it is possible for the action produced by an optional passive condition to declare and resolved within the same chain of effects created by a mandatory passive condition.
![[-me_wi-]](./images/smilies/me_wi.png "Wilderness"){kind=small}
is already in company's site path), or the chain where appears in company's site path (and Long Winter is already in play), or the chain where the two things happens, or the chain where the company loses a ranger (and is already in company's site path and Long Winter is already in play), or chain where all three things happens. Actions may be either declared by players, or they may be triggerd. "declared by players" and "triggerd" precludes mutually.Bandobras Took wrote:It is the combination of an attack and your choice that triggers Farmer Maggot.
Therefore, the action of the Wizardhaven declares and resolves first, because the triggering condition exists before the triggering condition of Farmer Maggot can be established.
This is incorrect.Bandobras Took wrote:Therefore, the action of the Wizardhaven declares and resolves first, because the triggering condition exists before the triggering condition of Farmer Maggot can be established.
