Council of Elrond

Each character has home site, normal character and non-normal character. Playing the characters of both type is restricted by many rules (where - haven, home site - available GI or DI, how many - one per organization phase). The factors that decides whether character is normal or not (for FW) are its race and mind parameter. Changing these factors does not affect other restrictions.

Let me run a similar interpretation by you:

MEWH wrote: USING ME:WH

When you play a Fallen-wizard, assume that your Fallen-wizard is a METW "Wizard". All of the normal METW rules apply except for the specific exceptions outlined in these rules. The ME:LE rules that concern Wizards also apply to Fallen-wizards.

So this normal rule:

METW, Getting Ready To Play wrote:Place one to five starting characters (no Wizards) face down in front of you. The combined mind attributes (see page 19) of these characters must be 20 or less. You and your opponent reveal your characters simultaneously, placing any duplicated characters into your play decks. Then organize your starting characters into followers and companies and place them at Rivendell (i.e., place a Rivendell site card next to them).

is completely overridden by:

MEWH wrote: STARTING CHARACTERS - Your starting characters (up to 5) may include hero characters and minion characters, but you may not start a character with a mind greater than 5. However, you may not start Orc and Troll characters unless you start with an appropriate stage resource card (e.g. Bad Company).

STARTING SITE - Your starting company may begin play at The White Towers or at any Ruins & Lairs site in Rhudaur or Arthedain. If you start at a Ruins & Lairs site, one of your starting stage resource cards may be a Hidden Haven played on your starting site.

Therefore I am free to start with my Fallen Wizard, since the old restriction of (no Wizards) has been overwritten be a completely new mechanism?

Yes. As long your Fallen Wizard has mind up to 6.

What has that got to do with it? You just can't start a character with mind greater than 5 -- which FWs most emphatically do not have.

Ach sorry. I did not realize that Thrall of The Voice is not involved in your example.
According to this wording - yes. Fallen Wizard has no mind thus has no ming greater than 5.

Good point.

P.S. According to the wording of Sauron and fact the unlike similarly worded Bade To Rule, FW is not explicitly restricted from playing this card, Sauron could be played by FW. Condition "if your opponent is a Wizard and ou have not revealed a Ringwrait" may be fulfilled by FW with ease (by Wizard too, but he cannot include Bade to Rule, nor Sauron in his deck).

Why can't WHCtK then be used to bring in an Orc or Troll without Bad Company?

Why isn't Thrall of the Voice included in the "e.g." list in the WH rules as an appropriate resource that enables ORcs and Trolls to be played or included in the starting company?

"Instead of a normal character" just means precisely that, i.e. it's a replacement for the standard character play, and you can't play 2 characters.

We Have Come to Kill does not refer to the question "which character may be played".
Exempli Gratia list does not preclude other possibilities, never.

You may not play Orc and Troll characters until you have played the appropriate
card (e.g., Bad Company).

A Strident Spawn is not mentioned here too. Also the Thrall of The Voice is not card that specifically allows to play Orcs and Trolls.

I don't follow your first explanation.

Also the Thrall of The Voice is not card that specifically allows to play Orcs and Trolls.

I'd argue it simple does not allow the play of Orcs and Trolls, period.

Rules does not allow FW specifically to play Arwen, Frodo, Balin.
They all fits in definition "non-Orc, non-Troll character with mind not greather than 5". No need to specify them. They are allowed.
Currently I have nothing else to add.

Since you have nothing else to add, I will now with complete equanimity start building decks that have FWs in the starting company.

...and do not forget to include Sauron (max 2 copies) in deck.

Will somebody lay this question at the feet of the NetRep? or has it been asked already? Seems an important issue to me.

Now I usually stay far from matters of rules, but pending the NetRep verdict I will say this:
-Jambo's line of reasoning seems most logical to me.
-Thematically however, why couldn't a single Orc/Troll be Enthralled by the Voice?
-Game play: having to start Bad Company for every type of company involving an Orc/Troll is a bore and limits the game too much (as it's 2 SP). It means you will mostly see Orc-only companies.
-Crushing the single Troll-chief squatter deck however has my full agreement.

so there's a bunch of contradictory statements for yeh

The current official ruling is that Thrall does work on Orcs/Trolls. As this thread evidences, it's heavily disputed, but NetReps past have consistently come down on the side of it working on Orcs/Trolls.

Is it ruled on? then why the discussion?
I checked past few digests and CRF, and used the search function here, so I guess we are definitely in need of a better system.
Can you give me the digest? I'd like to see the reasoning (as said I think Jambo makes a fair point).

NetRep wrote:Is that true? Can you play orcs and trolls with Thrall of the Voice even
if Bad Company isn't in play?

*** It's true. Brian ruled that, and I support the ruling.

I'll be able to give you a digest number when I finish with the rules.

As to why the discussion, NetReps have been mistaken in the past. Some of this discussion is because new reasoning comes to light. For example, this discussion has led to the surprising conclusion that the reasoning which supports Thrall bringing in Orcs and Trolls might also lead to Fallen Wizards as starting characters.