Oh, you didn't see it? I'll copy it. Thrall of the Voice states "
-1 to his mind to a minimum of 1."
MELE p. 40 wrote:Permanent-event - The effects of a resource permanent-event are immediately implemented. Its effects last until the card is discarded. Certain effects can cause a permanent-event to be discarded: these effects are given in the text of specific cards.
Modifying an attribute of an entity is an action that targets the entity. Thrall of the Voice includes the action of reducing the played character's mind by one. This modification lasts until Thrall is discarded.
This is similar to Lure of the Senses which states "
Target character receives 2 corruption points." This action modifies the corruption point total for the character and it lasts until Lure of the Senses is discarded.
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Bandobras Took wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:32 pm
Clarification: For emphasis, a value used during play is often provided both in a card's text and in another place on the same card. For example, a character's corruption check modifier is stated both in the text and the lower right corner of the character's card.
Oh yes, thank you for finding this. This clarifications describes how the attribute-modification-actions in the card's text are also placed elsewhere on the card for emphasis (as a reminder, so you don't need to read the card text again).
Of course, the number "2" in the bottom right corner is merely a reminder of the action created by Lure of the Senses -- "
Target character receives 2 corruption points."
Just like how the Mind icon with a "-1" on Thrall is a reminder of Thrall's action "
-1 to his mind to a minimum of 1."
These modifications are provided by the resolution of an action created by the card's card text, not merely by presence of a reminder elsewhere on the card.
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Bandobras Took wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:32 pm
On another note:
Regardless, a passive condition requires the triggering action (the passive condition) to be stated twice.
Once to create the action (either by rule or card text)
And again to establish it as a passive condition for some other action.
Again, imaginary rules don't really have a place in these conversations.
This is not an imaginary rule. it is directly in the description of Passive Conditions.
MELE p. 88, parenthetical statements added wrote:Condition, Passive: An action (1st action, the passive condition) that causes another action (the 2nd action) to take effect. The triggered action will be the first declared action in the chain of effects (2nd chain of effects) immediately following the chain of effects (1st chain of effects) that conained the passive condition (the first chain includes the first action).
Therefore, a Passive Condition is defined by 2 actions. The Triggering action (ie, the passive condition, which is an action in first chain of effects) and the triggered action (an action in the second chain of effects).
When a card creates the 2nd action, it will define a 1st action as triggering the 2nd action.
Furthermore, you can tell that the actions created by Thrall's card text are not passive conditions because they all occur in the same chain of effects not 2 different chains).
MELE p.50 wrote:If the play of a card requires other actions (e.g., corruption checks), the actions are resolved in the order in which they appear on the card.
The play of Thrall of the Voice requires (1) a character-playing action, (2) a Thrall-card-placing action, and (3) a -1 to mind action. These actions are resolved in the same chain of effects.
None of these actions created by Thrall establish a 2nd action in a first chain of effects that would trigger them in a second chain of effects. Therefore, none of these actions have passive conditions.
MELE Companion, Passive Conditions,p. 62 wrote:These are called passive conditions because the actions they satisfy come into play only indirectly as a result of a decision made by a player
There is no indirect action that is the condition for "
place this card with the character". It is not a passive condition.
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Theo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:30 am
Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:38 am
Theo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:23 am
Thrall of the Voice is not played in lieu of minor items.
Wasn't me.
It was me.
Theo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:30 am
There is no
causation, there is only succession.
I agree. Passive Conditions establish one action as the cause (trigger) for another action. One action referencing another action in the same chain of effects does not establish a passive condition.