Council of Elrond

Shadow Out of the Dark

Playable on any entity (including one of your own) with both a resource/character manifestation and a hazard manifestation. Both manifestations may be in play at the same time. Ignore any effect which would cause one of these manifestations to return to your hand. If this card is discarded, discard any hazard manifestation of the target as well. May not be duplicated by a given player.

I think this is stupid.... (just don't like it...)

the only positiv effekt would maybe be making the Mouth of Sauron plabable....

but on the onther hand... We already do a new version of the Mouth so why not skip it!!!!

BoderHamster wrote:I think this is stupid.... (just don't like it...)

the only positiv effekt would maybe be making the Mouth of Sauron plabable....

but on the onther hand... We already do a new version of the Mouth so why not skip it!!!!

Gandalf the white rider/ Lady of the golden wood/ Master of the house/ Nazguls-RWs, etc... I think this one is a very good one, not stupid at all

The Balrog ally/Balrog of Moria, Last Child/Shelob, Stinker/My Precious, Mistress Lobelia/Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, as well.

Eowyn/ fools bane (V2), army of the dead/ ghosts (V2), Gothmog (V2) & Rogrog(V2)/ LTs of Angmar & Morgul

YEAH but why allowing this kind of wieredness after all...why do we want to manifestioins in game?

Because VCs are about opening up new styles of play?

1) Different Manifestations of the same unique dragon may already be in play at the same time;
2) It's a hazard, so it can still be Marvels/Voiced; and
3) Most of the time this will be based around one entity with both manifestations.

What happens if one manifestation is killed? That is the drawback of the card.

i assume that if one is killied the other one gets eliminated as well...

dragons can't move out of the regions where their hazard counterpart is playable though (well, not counting dreamcard Dragonlords). It is a bit strange to have Lord of Carrock attack at Anduin Vales while Beorn is in Isles of the Dead.

Maybe this should only be playable if you have a magic user in play or are Sauron, though most cards affected would actually bother only minions. I find it hard to come to terms with this card thematically, Elrond cloning his spirit to protect his house while away on a mission?

i'd say that this other manifestantions would only be playable as permanent events? That might remove some conflicts...

That would be more acceptable yes. It is still weird to think of heroes duplicating themselves, that would be unforgivable in Tolkien's view, that's why this card is shadow-magic. But as perms they are more like a force.

new shot would be like:

Shadows out of dark wrote:Playable on any entity (including one of your own) with both a resource/character manifestation and a hazard event manifestation. Both manifestations may be in play at the same time. Ignore any effect which would cause one of these manifestations to return to your hand. If this card is discarded, discard any hazard manifestation of the target as well. May not be duplicated by a given player.

bolds are mine

That still wouldn't prevent such a card from being played as a creature.

I would rather see: you may not play a manifestation of your opponent's avatar in this manner. This would still allow Durin's Bane w/Balrog Ally, but wouldn't force Pallando to kill himself.

okay, then new shot:

Playable on any entity (including one of your own) with both a resource/character manifestation and a hazard manifestation. Both manifestations may be in play at the same time. Ignore any effect which would cause one of these manifestations to return to your hand. If this card is discarded, discard any hazard manifestation of the target as well. Such entity may not be played as a creature. May not be duplicated by a given player.

bolds are mine