Council of Elrond

huh? you mean like when? I've played rings with every FW, just not at tourneys, but then they all suck at tourneys. Try Celeborn as a never refusing Pallando's apprentice with a shadowmagic ring and hounds of sauron every turn, that's cool....

I'll amend the statement: virtually nobody uses the card, because most people that go for FW Rings are going to use Saruman for the sheer utility of Saruman's Ring.

Or the sheer utility of The Grey Hat

For recycling Hobbit-Lore?

Saruman can tap to recycle Wizard's Tests and use Saruman's Ring to get rings from the discard pile as well -- he still wins.

Well of course, you'll see what the hat can do for you after VC2

Besides, Gandalf beat Saruman to finding the ring and actually had a chance to get it in his hands, Sorryman only brought about his own ruin by capturing the wrong two hobbits, so I say Gandalf wins...

Gandalf only got the idea of looking at the Scroll after hearing Saruman talk, so Saruman still wins -- without him, Gandalf would never have known how to tell.

Ha, but you're mistaken! Saruman didn't tell Gandalf he had read the Scroll, Gandalf made the correct deduction that he must have gained some important knowledge in the archives of Minas Tirith and started searching in the Gladden Fields.
It's Gandalfs superior intelligence that put the pieces together that led to discovering the One, not Saruman's clues.

lol

i declare a draw

I would still maintain that this had less to do with Ring-Lore and more to do with Gandalf's generally superior common sense and wisdom.

That I agree with, because it was Saruman who was Blind to All Else.
And that brings us right back on topic

Do we realy want Fallen wizards to play cards like KING UNDER THE MOUNTAIN....
oder ähnliches???

why not?

I just wasn't sure if we want that....

so the hero wizards have some superiority in a certain way!

Hero Wizards already get 5 MPs from the Returned Exiles faction, something no FW can match, and they can use High-Mind characters; I don't see any particular weakness on the pure Hero side of things that would make FW a better choice for KuTM.

also, i think hero wizards still have superiority here. They can be sac formed for an easy dragon kill whithout loosing resources (specific stage resources for FW)